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IMO, the middle of the roader believer and non believer need to team up more often. The fundy/militant think types will call us all sorts of names and label us traitors.
That's when we know we are heading in the right direction.
I agree
I don’t like conflict but do value the Scriptures ... but find there is a lot of “context” in the Scriptures that need to be taken into account relating to meaning, timing, relativity etc
It may not, but accepting eternal punishment for a finite life for ANY REASON whatsoever, is the most unloving attitude I can imagine, Michael.
You simply don't get it. It's not about sin in a finite life resulting in eternal punishment. All sin was judged and taken care of at the cross. The 'eternal punishment' is separation from God for those who don't receive Jesus as Savior because no matter how good they may be from a human standpoint their human righteousness can never measure up to God's perfect standard and therefore they will be separated from God in a spiritual sense forever.
It is only when a person personally trusts in Jesus for eternal salvation that God credits the perfect and absolute righteousness of Jesus to that person which then qualifies that person to live in the presence of God forever.
Jesus' redemptive work on the cross took care of the sin problem but it did not give anyone perfect righteousness. The imputation of Jesus' perfect righteousness occurs only when a person personally trusts in Christ Jesus for eternal life.
And this couldn't be any more clear. Yet, some of you people will never understand the issue.
Believing that God judges and believing the Bible about eternal punishment does not make a Christian unloving.
No it doesn’t
But the issue as I see it is what that punishment is, and who it is meant for ......
the Scriptures are so much more than either our own individual perspectives or our own collective/assembled perspectives
They are not targeted at the individual, they are targeted at the hierarchical/structural through the individual
And the Christian is to be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove and be wary of the “men”
Persecution Will Come
Mat 10:16**Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Mat 10:17**But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
This is why in Ephesians we are told this
The Whole Armor of God
Eph 6:10**Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11**Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12**For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Paul (who’s name means little) to Timothy (who’s name means dear to God) has this to say
A Good Servant of Christ Jesus
1Ti 4:6**If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
1Ti 4:7**But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
1Ti 4:8**For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
1Ti 4:9**This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
1Ti 4:10**For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Ti 4:11**These things command and teach.
1Ti 4:12**Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1Ti 4:13**Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti 4:14**Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
1Ti 4:15**Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1Ti 4:16**Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Save is G4982***(Strong)
σώζω
sōzō
sode'-zo
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
Gandhi hated Christians he did not have any fruit of the spirit, so why should Christians care to what He had to say, still there are many Christians who have the fruit of the spirit of love and charity
Gandhi didn't hate Christians. He hated the divide between what Christians say and what Christians do.
The British literally starved, beat, and shot untold numbers of his countrymen. Read a little history, how about it?
Gandhi didn't hate Christians. He hated the divide between what Christians say and what Christians do.
The British literally starved, beat, and shot untold numbers of his countrymen. Read a little history, how about it?
Yep
And this has happened all over the globe to greater and lesser degrees with no Particular race/nation being above showing “inhumanity” toward their own or others (as prophecied)
It’s not the regular people, it is the societal needs, frictions, etc that develop it, condone it, and drive it and the multitudes are enslaved/subject to the societal influences
I don’t like conflict but do value the Scriptures ... but find there is a lot of “context” in the Scriptures that need to be taken into account relating to meaning, timing, relativity etc
yup ...
I am a non believer that asks "what can we learn from the story". I see no reason to have the bible literally true or false. That kind of binary thinking just is not rational more often than not.
I am a non believer that asks "what can we learn from the story". I see no reason to have the bible literally true or false. That kind of binary thinking just is not rational more often than not.
Exactly!
What I see is that the literalist mindset is the major problem at this late stage in the development
All throughout there is emphasis on symbols, signs, words, prophecy, revelation, etc
Believing that God judges and believing the Bible about eternal punishment does not make a Christian unloving.
Agreed, and MysticPhD, there are plenty of statements by Jesus that suggests God’s wrath is there. Lazarus and the rich man, for one, and condemnations of the “faithless generation” that He saw are another.
Christian love isn’t just hugging someone and saying “it’s OK”; it’s loving to point out sin so that the sinner can repent and be forgiven. Sometimes directness is the best form of love.
We know that because of the many times in scripture that He was the "ransom" for the people.
As Isaiah said, the iniquity of us all was laid on Him, and it pleased God to bruise Him.
Why would it please God to put His Son through that? In order to pay the payment demanded by God for sin when we had no way of doing it!
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