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The forum seems to be dominated by fundamentalist wrath and vengeance Christians who as Ghandi said do not remotely resemble Jesus Christ. The militant atheists seem to be the only other consistent posters. The reduced traffic in the R&S forums may be related to that dominance of the extremes. Aren't there any other loving middle-of-the-roaders like JAA2310?
Do the majority of Christians believe in a wrathful and vengeful God despite the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus???? That just seems so oddly incongruous to me. The barbaric blood sacrifice meme is so completely primitive I am astounded it has held sway for so long. Are most people still really that barbaric-minded? That is such a depressing thought.
Where have all the loving Christians gone?
They are all around us, but busy with the panty-waisted who refuse to believe the judgement found in scripture.
More important that love is the truth of scripture shining forth!
You simply don't get it. It's not about sin in a finite life resulting in eternal punishment. All sin was judged and taken care of at the cross. The 'eternal punishment' is separation from God for those who don't receive Jesus as Savior because no matter how good they may be from a human standpoint their human righteousness can never measure up to God's perfect standard and therefore they will be separated from God in a spiritual sense forever.
It is only when a person personally trusts in Jesus for eternal salvation that God credits the perfect and absolute righteousness of Jesus to that person which then qualifies that person to live in the presence of God forever.
Jesus' redemptive work on the cross took care of the sin problem but it did not give anyone perfect righteousness. The imputation of Jesus' perfect righteousness occurs only when a person personally trusts in Christ Jesus for eternal life.
And this couldn't be any more clear. Yet, some of you people will never understand the issue.
Michael, I agree with so many of the non-supernatural things you believe, but it simply cannot be that the cover of Jesus's perfect agape love (Grace) depends on what you believe about Jesus and God. It is a non sequitur. We receive the Grace of Jesus based on how resonant our Spirit (Soul) is with Jesus's Holy Spirit of agape love. That will depend on how often we have evoked agape love in our lives - 30 fold, 60 fold, or 100 fold, IMO.
I am grateful that I do not personally know of anyone who has NEVER evoked agape love in their consciousness so I doubt there are any. But even if it is the first and last time you do so, say at your death as you sacrifice your life trying to save someone else, I believe it would be enough to place you in resonance with Jesus's Holy Spirit.YMMV.
The forum seems to be dominated by fundamentalist wrath and vengeance Christians who as Ghandi said do not remotely resemble Jesus Christ. The militant atheists seem to be the only other consistent posters. The reduced traffic in the R&S forums may be related to that dominance of the extremes. Aren't there any other loving middle-of-the-roaders like JAA2310?
Do the majority of Christians believe in a wrathful and vengeful God despite the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus???? That just seems so oddly incongruous to me. The barbaric blood sacrifice meme is so completely primitive I am astounded it has held sway for so long. Are most people still really that barbaric-minded? That is such a depressing thought.
it does not exactly work this way, Mystic.
"31But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
And I will show you a still more excellent way."
""1When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love (agape)."
1"Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity,
I do NOT believe God demanded it as some kind of payment or punishment to appease His NON-EXISTENT wrath and vengeance for ANYTHING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Regarding the bolded . . .your beliefs are wrong.
The Penal Substitution Theory is fallacious, Mike. And, he has no reason to be vengeful, that is merely the ideologies of men. It's like a parasite that has been absorbed into the minds of (religious) men; and its existence is dependent upon maintaining, gullible and ignorant beliefs - all under the authority of those who required a national or amalgamated religion to solidity their control over the masses of the people. It's time people woke up to the truth, as we are not living in the first century - where they believed in demons, the devil or Satan.
We know that because of the many times in scripture that He was the "ransom" for the people.
As Isaiah said, the iniquity of us all was laid on Him, and it pleased God to bruise Him.
Why would it please God to put His Son through that? In order to pay the payment demanded by God for sin when we had no way of doing it!
Ransom is paid to criminals, NOT God, Charlie. Our iniquity certainly inflicted the maximum bruising and pain possible on Him, but NOT at the behest of God. It was all our ancestors' demand, NOT God's.
Where have all the loving Christians gone?
They are all around us, but busy with the panty-waisted who refuse to believe the judgement found in scripture.
More important that love is the truth of scripture shining forth!
It is revealing that the brutality in scripture seems to resonate more with you than God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed unambiguously by Jesus. You consider it "wimpy," "Hippie," and now "panty-waisted." I would be worried about that if I were you, Charlie
It is revealing that the brutality in scripture seems to resonate more with you than God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed unambiguously by Jesus. You consider it "wimpy," "Hippie," and now "panty-waisted." I would be worried about that if I were you, Charlie
What does it matter if the message of judgement comes from Christ or a fundie?
You deny it from both sources! You and that anti-judgement crowd are the reason we can't resonate love in the way we should. We have to establish TRUTH first!
Michael, I agree with so many of the non-supernatural things you believe, but it simply cannot be that the cover of Jesus's perfect agape love (Grace) depends on what you believe about Jesus and God. It is a non sequitur. We receive the Grace of Jesus based on how resonant our Spirit (Soul) is with Jesus's Holy Spirit of agape love. That will depend on how often we have evoked agape love in our lives - 30 fold, 60 fold, or 100 fold, IMO.
I am grateful that I do not personally know of anyone who has NEVER evoked agape love in their consciousness so I doubt there are any. But even if it is the first and last time you do so, say at your death as you sacrifice your life trying to save someone else, I believe it would be enough to place you in resonance with Jesus's Holy Spirit.YMMV.
I'm quite sure that the biblical writers knew a great deal more about it than you. Jesus himself said that it's those who believe in him who will have eternal life.
And frankly, I don't give a damn if you think I'm ''in resonance with Jesus's Holy Spirit'' or not.
What does it matter if the message of judgement comes from Christ or a fundie?
You deny it from both sources! You and that anti-judgment crowd are the reason we can't resonate love in the way we should. We have to establish TRUTH first!
There is no love in a false message!
It does NOT come from Jesus, Charlie., There are SPIRITUAL CONSEQUENCES for our failure to develop our Spirits to maturity, but they are NOT judgments of God. Our ignorant ancestors thought EVERYTHING (good or bad) was a judgment of God so that is the only way they could understand.
The concept of a wrathful and vengeful God comes from our misguided primitive ancestors' mistaken beliefs about what God wanted from us. Today it comes from misguided fundies like yourself thinking their primitive beliefs were actually from God despite the revelations of Jesus Himself.
Ransom is paid to criminals, NOT God, Charlie. Our iniquity certainly inflicted the maximum bruising and pain possible on Him, but NOT at the behest of God. It was all our ancestors' demand, NOT God's.
I suggest you take a look at the definition of ransom.
ran·som
/ˈransəm/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a sum of money or other payment demanded or paid for the release of a prisoner.
"the kidnappers demanded a ransom"
Similar:
payoff
payment
price
verb obtain the release of (a prisoner) by making a payment demanded.
"the lord was captured in war and had to be ransomed"
In the bold, the prisoner was mankind!
The payment demanded was for the sin of mankind that man could not pay.
The demands for sin is blood of the man who sins.
Christ was that man, taking our place, therefore His sacrifice was the ransom of the people.
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