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This used to be the "Christianity" forum, which unlike the R&S and Agnostic/Atheist forums, was a place where Christians could respectfully discuss Christian issues. But, it was overrun by Atheists and others whose primary messages are: "God is 'only' love" (with no justice); "The Bible is only an old book written by men and holds nothing for 'modern thinkers'"; and finally, "Christians are too narrow-minded and judgmental and should instead compromise in every area - so no one is offended."
Many Christians, including myself, grew weary of those who, instead of seeking God, persistently attacked Christians, the Bible and the sacrificial role of Jesus Christ, as being foolish. But, that's what the Bible states they would do: " The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. (1Cor 2:14)
The real irony of this thread ("Where have all the loving Christians gone?")is that you (MysticPhD) have been among the leaders of those consistently tearing down Biblical Christianity. It's abundantly clear that you, among about a dozen others, are only here to present your own baseless theology.It's also become clear to many Christians who used to regularly post here, that it's futile and pointless to raise-up the truth among those so strongly committed to promoting the lie/s.
And you, who does not see the irony of his own post is not surprising. You accuse others for that which you are also guilty of: "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." I know you love to throw out various verses, as if, you are the exception to the rule, not knowing that you are actually promoting the lie/s that infiltrated the Church.
This used to be the "Christianity" forum, which unlike the R&S and Agnostic/Atheist forums, was a place where Christians could respectfully discuss Christian issues. But, it was overrun by Atheists and others whose primary messages are: "God is 'only' love" (with no justice); "The Bible is only an old book written by men and holds nothing for 'modern thinkers'"; and finally, "Christians are too narrow-minded and judgmental and should instead compromise in every area - so no one is offended."
Many Christians, including myself, grew weary of those who, instead of seeking God, persistently attacked Christians, the Bible, and the sacrificial role of Jesus Christ, as being foolish. But, that's what the Bible states they would do: " The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. (1Cor 2:14)
The real irony of this thread ("Where have all the loving Christians gone?")is that you (MysticPhD) have been among the leaders of those consistently tearing down Biblical Christianity. It's abundantly clear that you, among about a dozen others, are only here to present your own baseless theology. It's also become clear to many Christians who used to regularly post here, that it's futile and pointless to raise-up the truth among those so strongly committed to promoting the lie/s.
Your status as a minister explains your commitment to the dogma, IMO. But I do none of the things you accuse me of. I use the Bible because it CONTAINS the truth. My theology is not baseless. It is based on Jesus as the embodiment of God's Holy Spirit. His Holy Spirit is what attracted me to Christianity because it EXACTLY matches the consciousness I encountered in deep meditation.
Regrettably, encountering the barbaric misunderstanding of Him as a blood sacrifice to God is what I find completely incongruous. Christ's actual sacrifice of His life to our ignorant savage ancestors out of agape love for all including His torturers and murderers reveals the True Nature of God in contrast to the ignorant beliefs in the wrathful and vengeful God of our ignorant ancestors. I am sincerely astounded that such an utterly barbaric interpretation of God's motives could ever have been produced let alone survive for millennia.
I genuinely cannot understand where this complete conviction that the Bible ONLY contains truth comes from, especially when it clearly contradicts or is inconsistent with God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus. As a minister, you surely are familiar with the "sausage-making" origins of the content of the Bible, its uncertainties about authorship, and the political nature of its compilation and canonization, so whence comes this absurd conviction???
The forum seems to be dominated by fundamentalist wrath and vengeance Christians who as Ghandi said do not remotely resemble Jesus Christ. The militant atheists seem to be the only other consistent posters. The reduced traffic in the R&S forums may be related to that dominance of the extremes. Aren't there any other loving middle-of-the-roaders like JAA2310?
Do the majority of Christians believe in a wrathful and vengeful God despite the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus???? That just seems so oddly incongruous to me. The barbaric blood sacrifice meme is so completely primitive I am astounded it has held sway for so long. Are most people still really that barbaric-minded? That is such a depressing thought.
Great post and warning. Not that this is an enjoyable matter, but pointing it out is highly necessary.
The loving Christians I know tend to avoid churches, so we're mostly on our own. Loving and middle-of-the road is exactly the way to go. In contrast, the extremists are off-balance, and blind to the other side and the overall big picture.
Religion and churchy extremism/fundamentalism is poisonous to healthy spirituality, understanding, and knowledge.
Just like with a sick person, we can ignore the "body" and let it degrade and get more sickly, or we can be honest and real with ourselves, and see where cleansing and restoration are necessary.
Loving Christians? We exist. We follow the teachings of Jesus. We don't hate. We respect the faith of other people, and we think that taking care of the poor, the weak, the marginalized, the vulnerable the hungry, and the poor is what Jesus would want, and so we try our best to do that.
Where you will not find us, - Mega-churches, Hobby Lobby, Moderator cut: No politics, driving trucks with American Flags, Chick A Filet, driving our children to Christian Academies, deciding who should and who should not marry or raise children.
On Sunday, many of us attend smaller mainline denominational churches that are nothing like rock concerts.
At our food pantries, we do not ask clients to pray, confess, or "accept the Lord" before we feed the hungry.
We are here.
My mega church operates a food bank, free medical and dental clinic for the poor, gives out winter coats each year, operates an after-school program for at risk students and does lite construction for the elderly and disabled. You’re right, no love there!
And you, who does not see the irony of his own post is not surprising. You accuse others for that which you are also guilty of: "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." I know you love to throw out various verses, as if, you are the exception to the rule, not knowing that you are actually promoting the lie/s that infiltrated the Church.
My mega-church operates a food bank, free medical and dental clinic for the poor, gives out winter coats each year, operates an after-school program for at-risk students, and does lite construction for the elderly and disabled. You’re right, no love there!
Those are all wonderful works of love, Jimmie, especially if they do not involve proselytizing. The stumbling block to truly knowing God and Jesus is the wrath and vengeance nonsense of eternal Hell and damnation for believing the wrong things ABOUT Jesus and God. There is not and cannot be any such wrath and vengeance in God who IS agape love. It does not compute! If there was, you and those who accept the wrath and vengeance beliefs would be the ones in trouble, IMO.
Those are all wonderful works of love, Jimmie, especially if they do not involve proselytizing. The stumbling block to truly knowing God and Jesus is the wrath and vengeance nonsense of eternal Hell and damnation for believing the wrong things ABOUT Jesus and God. There is not and cannot be any such wrath and vengeance in God who IS agape love. It does not compute! If there was, you and those who accept the wrath and vengeance beliefs would be the ones in trouble, IMO.
I thank God that I was born dumb, and continued that blessing throughout my adult life!
Any wisdom I may have has came from the Lord. Just as He took a dumb fisherman and gave him astounding knowledge, but I don't claim nearly the wisdom of Peter.
I only claim that he took a dumb drunkard and stood him on his feet to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ in truth and righteousness!
The forum seems to be dominated by fundamentalist wrath and vengeance Christians who as Ghandi said do not remotely resemble Jesus Christ. The militant atheists seem to be the only other consistent posters. The reduced traffic in the R&S forums may be related to that dominance of the extremes. Aren't there any other loving middle-of-the-roaders like JAA2310?
Do the majority of Christians believe in a wrathful and vengeful God despite the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus???? That just seems so oddly incongruous to me. The barbaric blood sacrifice meme is so completely primitive I am astounded it has held sway for so long. Are most people still really that barbaric-minded? That is such a depressing thought.
In the early 70s, in my sophomore summer in a small community in southwestern MI, my best friend and I went to a different church every Sunday to see if we could find one that we could stand. We attended Catholic and all the Protestant denominations available within a 20 mile radius, starting nearby and working our way out. We gave up by mid-August. It was all hell and damnation, God smite the sinner, and damnation to the illegitimate. Several were so intolerant that we left mid-sermon.
In my mid-50s, I made another reasonable effort here in the Seattle-metro area. It was marginally better, but I still didn't feel comfortable. Less hell and damnation, but more of a prideful, look at us how good we are vibe, and not all that sincerely welcoming to strangers.
The one exception was the Center for Spiritual Living, a Religious Science church that studies all the religious teachings and was very, very welcoming and inclusive. My husband and I attended for several years, I took their courses in becoming a Spiritual Practitioner and eventually led groups formed to listen to attendees talk about whatever might be getting them "stuck" in their finding their personal relationship with God. Though they do not claim to be Christians, since they study and practice the wisdom teachings of all of God's prophets and the Buddha, they were the most "christian" group I ever found.
I thank God that I was born dumb, and continued that blessing throughout my adult life!
Any wisdom I may have has came from the Lord. Just as He took a dumb fisherman and gave him astounding knowledge, but I don't claim nearly the wisdom of Peter.
I only claim that he took a dumb drunkard and stood him on his feet to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ in truth and righteousness!
I have said you would be an amazing evangel of Christ if you actually knew Christ and spread HIS word instead of our ancestors' ignorant primitive beliefs in a wrathful and vengeful God, Charlie! If you only tested what you preach against God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus you would be awesome!! But as you blindly accept everything written in the Bible as truth, you are the blind leading the blind. Sad, very sad!
In the early 70s, in my sophomore summer in a small community in southwestern MI, my best friend and I went to a different church every Sunday to see if we could find one that we could stand. We attended Catholic and all the Protestant denominations available within a 20 mile radius, starting nearby and working our way out. We gave up by mid-August. It was all hell and damnation, God smite the sinner, and damnation to the illegitimate. Several were so intolerant that we left mid-sermon.
In my mid-50s, I made another reasonable effort here in the Seattle-metro area. It was marginally better, but I still didn't feel comfortable. Less hell and damnation, but more of a prideful, look at us how good we are vibe, and not all that sincerely welcoming to strangers.
The one exception was the Center for Spiritual Living, a Religious Science church that studies all the religious teachings and was very, very welcoming and inclusive. My husband and I attended for several years, I took their courses in becoming a Spiritual Practitioner and eventually led groups formed to listen to attendees talk about whatever might be getting them "stuck" in their finding their personal relationship with God. Though they do not claim to be Christians, since they study and practice the wisdom teachings of all of God's prophets and the Buddha, they were the most "christian" group I ever found.
I am not surprised by this at all. Some of the more tolerant groups have a similar breadth of exposure to many threads of spirituality. They also tend to be the most persecuted by the dominant fundamentalist religions in their area, witness the Bahai, Alamites, Druze, in Islamic states.
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The irony is frustratingly evident, Jer!
