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This used to be the "Christianity" forum, which unlike the R&S and Agnostic/Atheist forums, was a place where Christians could respectfully discuss Christian issues. But, it was overrun by Atheists and others whose primary messages are: "God is 'only' love" (with no justice); "The Bible is only an old book written by men and holds nothing for 'modern thinkers'"; and finally, "Christians are too narrow-minded and judgmental and should instead compromise in every area - so no one is offended."
Many Christians, including myself, grew weary of those who, instead of seeking God, persistently attacked Christians, the Bible and the sacrificial role of Jesus Christ, as being foolish. But, that's what the Bible states they would do: " The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. (1Cor 2:14)
The real irony of this thread ("Where have all the loving Christians gone?")is that you (MysticPhD) have been among the leaders of those consistently tearing down Biblical Christianity. It's abundantly clear that you, among about a dozen others, are only here to present your own baseless theology. It's also become clear to many Christians who used to regularly post here, that it's futile and pointless to raise-up the truth among those so strongly committed to promoting the lie/s.
Couldn't that scripture apply to you just as well as it could to the "God is love" people? Isn't that exactly what the "God is love" people are doing? Are they not applying the spirit of the law instead of the letter of the law? The scriptures are there for you to use to refine yourself. It's not a battering ram to be used on someone else.
That is indeed a very good question! I don't have the answer but I can tell you what I think is going on with them from years of conversation.
I don't believe they are intentionally teaching a false doctrine, I think they believe everything they say.
Every one of them have something in common, they all have the tree huggers mentality. They must be in touch with the inner self, you can see it in their posts. I've said before they have a huge heart for mankind but in an extreme manner. It doesn't seem to bother them at all that scripture does not line up with their claims. That is the extreme heart telling them it can't be so, there is no way God would do that.
IMO they are blinded by the heart, and can't go against that feeling of all working out well for man regardless of what the scripture says. No one can convince them otherwise.
IMO that is God. The inner self is compassion, it is joy, it is love, it is God. That's why they can be so generous to others. When that's taken from you it's what the alkies call "a God-shaped hole". Without that you have nothing. There used to be a voice in my head condemning me like the one that tells you that you are responsible for nailing Christ to the cross. It's the voice of the accuser. When you are not in touch with that inner voice you condemn yourself and everyone else around you. Basically, I'm telling you that's not normal.
Out of the heart's abundance, the mouth speaks. I hear your pain when you speak.
As far as having a huge heart for mankind, how extreme is it to nail yourself to a cross for them? That sounds a bit....extreme.
That is indeed a very good question! I don't have the answer but I can tell you what I think is going on with them from years of conversation.
I don't believe they are intentionally teaching a false doctrine, I think they believe everything they say.
Every one of them have something in common, they all have the tree huggers mentality. They must be in touch with the inner self, you can see it in their posts. I've said before they have a huge heart for mankind but in an extreme manner. It doesn't seem to bother them at all that scripture does not line up with their claims. That is the extreme heart telling them it can't be so, there is no way God would do that.
IMO they are blinded by the heart, and can't go against that feeling of all working out well for man regardless of what the scripture says. No one can convince them otherwise.
And what do I see in common with your type of person?
I see you releasing the angst of having to make a choice by placing the responsibility somewhere else.
I see you have no integrity to speak the truth with the ignorance depicted in your post.
And the false doctrine is that which you believe, regarding HELLFIRE and damnation.
But you have been informed of this numerous times.
What exactly is his message? It is one he speaks of over and over....judgement. He says we are fools for having big hearts and spreading the message of agape love but Charlie's message is one of condemnation and God tossing souls into the lake of fire....I'd say Charlie should get a badge from Satan himself for his wonderful message....Charlie, your doing the devil's job....his name is the accuser.
The accuser of our brethren who accuses them before our God day and night (Revelation 12:10).
Did it ever occur to you your spreading accusations instead of the good news? Did Jesus come for that?
What exactly is his message? It is one he speaks of over and over....judgement. He says we are fools for having big hearts and spreading the message of agape love but Charlie's message is one of condemnation and God tossing souls into the lake of fire....I'd say Charlie should get a badge from Satan himself for his wonderful message....Charlie, your doing the devil's job....his name is the accuser.
The accuser of our brethren who accuses them before our God day and night (Revelation 12:10).
Did it ever occur to you your spreading accusations instead of the good news? Did Jesus come for that?
That's what he hears in his head. "You're not worthy" is the classic accusation. That's what I call "the world"; it blocks someone from the current of love and acceptance following all around them. If a person notices who Jesus preferred to spend His time with it was the people that had been labeled not worthy by society and themselves. I don't think the woman at the well went around all excited because Jesus had reinforced that. He must have said something that tickled her ears pretty dang good.
What exactly is his message? It is one he speaks of over and over....judgement. He says we are fools for having big hearts and spreading the message of agape love but Charlie's message is one of condemnation and God tossing souls into the lake of fire....I'd say Charlie should get a badge from Satan himself for his wonderful message....Charlie, your doing the devil's job....his name is the accuser.
The accuser of our brethren who accuses them before our God day and night (Revelation 12:10).
Did it ever occur to you your spreading accusations instead of the good news? Did Jesus come for that?
every post that claims eternal torment is saying God and Jesus is a big failure mike.
you are putting the cart before the horse mike. No one can come to God unless He draws them, thus unregenerate man CANNOT make a choice to come to Jesus. Regeneration must come before faith/belief and regeneration is all of God.
Thus if people are not saved it is not because they did not believe or have faith it is because God failed to regenerate them.
I do not believe God will fail to do that, you obviously believe He will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
You believe that only because you are a universalist.
No mike I believe it because it is logical.
God sent Jesus to save the world and if the world is not saved then God missed his mark (sinned) which means He failed to do what He said He would do and the reason Jesus was sent. Your view is simply illogical
Quote:
Again, God does not intend to save anyone who doesn't personally trust in Christ Jesus for eternal life.
And it seems that you are also a Calvinist since you believe that regeneration precedes faith. It does not. Faith is a result of believing the gospel message about Jesus. That faith is the means by which a person takes hold of the free gift of eternal life.
Calvinism is as wrong headed as Universalism.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved (regenerated) through faith . . .
From Paul's own mouth, faith precedes regeneration. Period.
well from my understanding of Calvinism they believe in predestination, which is scriptural, but they seem to hold God predestinated some to heaven and some to hell, they believe this because they only understand predestination in part. Predestination is only to life and has nothing to do with predestinating some to hell.
I believe in the salvation of all so can hardly be called a Calvinist.
I also noticed when you quoted Paul you only quoted half the verse and if you had of quoted it all you would have seen your error. here is the full verse.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Thus when you look at the whole scripture it can easily be seen that regeneration precedes faith and if you read the verses that follow it makes it crystal clear.
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
You do not partake in our salvation mike, salvation is ALL OF GOD.
Can a leopard change his spots?
No and neither can YOU.
Regeneration MUST take place before faith can be activated. You simply want to boast that you take part in the process.
Your entire premise is flawed Michael....what many of us are trying to say is that God does not save anyone who does not trust in Him like you said but even yet while we were sinners, God reached out to us, not the other way around. He ENABLES that trust , He is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith lest any man boast. You are simply boasting because you think the saved are the ones who figured it out. Jesus said ' You didn't choose me, I chose you" ... how did the disciples come into existence..did they query Jesus first? NO! He hand picked them. He hand picks us , not the other way around. He knows each man's heart. Not every fruit is ripe 100 % of the time either.
amen zero, He is the author and finisher of OUR/Humanities faith.
those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation reject this because if salvation is dependent all on God and eternal torment is true then the only logical answer for them is that God failed to save the whole world or they have to change and become Calvinist because the Calvinist believe God never intended to save the world only the elect of the world. Which is as mike said wrong headed, yet more would rather believe the Calvinist view then believe God through Christ is the saviour of the world.
The forum seems to be dominated by fundamentalist wrath and vengeance Christians who as Ghandi said do not remotely resemble Jesus Christ. The militant atheists seem to be the only other consistent posters. The reduced traffic in the R&S forums may be related to that dominance of the extremes. Aren't there any other loving middle-of-the-roaders like JAA2310?
Do the majority of Christians believe in a wrathful and vengeful God despite the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus???? That just seems so oddly incongruous to me. The barbaric blood sacrifice meme is so completely primitive I am astounded it has held sway for so long. Are most people still really that barbaric-minded? That is such a depressing thought.
They've been drive away by you and others. The ones that are left are the ones that do love, but when we get attacked mercilessly over and over again you assume we're full of hate.
Yes we are flesh and the flesh is adversarial to the spirit, our old man must die in order for the spirit to shine forth.
Thus when those who believe in eternal torment say they are saved by their faith they are attributing the works of God unto the devil, which is blasphemy.
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