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No one is saying that God and Jesus are big failures. God doesn't intend to save anyone who doesn't come to Jesus for eternal life. Universalism is crap.
Yep, they make up a false doctrine and then call Christ a failure if He doesn't fulfill their dreams.
No one is saying that God and Jesus are big failures. God doesn't intend to save anyone who doesn't come to Jesus for eternal life. Universalism is crap.
every post that claims eternal torment is saying God and Jesus is a big failure mike.
you are putting the cart before the horse mike. No one can come to God unless He draws them, thus unregenerate man CANNOT make a choice to come to Jesus. Regeneration must come before faith/belief and regeneration is all of God.
Thus if people are not saved it is not because they did not believe or have faith it is because God failed to regenerate them.
I do not believe God will fail to do that, you obviously believe He will.
Mystic, I rarely post in the City Data Christian threads (anymore), bcuz I find most are not conducted in good faith. There are a lot of threads, asking about Christian doctrine, not from sincere curiousity, but as bait for confrontation, or humiliation.
I don't see value in continuously arguing with people who resent Christians, or seek to denigrate Christians. I like conversations about how each of us feel about God. Or how we interpret & experience God. But those threads are comparatively rare, versus all the threads designed solely to expose Christian inconsistencies & hypocrisies. I'm not a Christian apologist, & don't always want a defensive position. I mean this thread itself is another blanket indictment of (perceived) Christian failings. Peace
Loving Christians? We exist. We follow the teachings of Jesus. We don't hate. We respect the faith of other people, and we think that taking care of the poor, the weak, the marginalized, the vulnerable the hungry, and the poor is what Jesus would want, and so we try our best to do that.
Where you will not find us, - Mega-churches, Hobby Lobby, Moderator cut: No politics, driving trucks with American Flags, Chick A Filet, driving our children to Christian Academies, deciding who should and who should not marry or raise children.
On Sunday, many of us attend smaller mainline denominational churches that are nothing like rock concerts.
At our food pantries, we do not ask clients to pray, confess, or "accept the Lord" before we feed the hungry.
We are here.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 08-02-2021 at 07:32 AM..
Reason: Reference to political figure
The forum seems to be dominated by fundamentalist wrath and vengeance Christians who as Ghandi said do not remotely resemble Jesus Christ. The militant atheists seem to be the only other consistent posters. The reduced traffic in the R&S forums may be related to that dominance of the extremes. Aren't there any other loving middle-of-the-roaders like JAA2310?
Do the majority of Christians believe in a wrathful and vengeful God despite the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus???? That just seems so oddly incongruous to me. The barbaric blood sacrifice meme is so completely primitive I am astounded it has held sway for so long. Are most people still really that barbaric-minded? That is such a depressing thought.
It is sad for sure Doc, even among us Christians I observe the love waning Mat 24:12. The only thing we can do is to make sure that we obey sir. Do your utmost to display the fruitages of the spirit at all times, if you find yourself lacking, work harder at it.
every post that claims eternal torment is saying God and Jesus is a big failure mike.
you are putting the cart before the horse mike. No one can come to God unless He draws them, thus unregenerate man CANNOT make a choice to come to Jesus. Regeneration must come before faith/belief and regeneration is all of God.
Thus if people are not saved it is not because they did not believe or have faith it is because God failed to regenerate them.
I do not believe God will fail to do that, you obviously believe He will.
You believe that only because you are a universalist. Again, God does not intend to save anyone who doesn't personally trust in Christ Jesus for eternal life.
And it seems that you are also a Calvinist since you believe that regeneration precedes faith. It does not. Faith is a result of believing the gospel message about Jesus. That faith is the means by which a person takes hold of the free gift of eternal life.
Calvinism is as wrong headed as Universalism.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved (regenerated) through faith . . .
From Paul's own mouth, faith precedes regeneration. Period.
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-02-2021 at 08:35 AM..
Mystic, I rarely post in the City Data Christian threads (anymore), bcuz I find most are not conducted in good faith. There are a lot of threads, asking about Christian doctrine, not from sincere curiousity, but as bait for confrontation, or humiliation.
I don't see value in continuously arguing with people who resent Christians, or seek to denigrate Christians. I like conversations about how each of us feel about God. Or how we interpret & experience God. But those threads are comparatively rare, versus all the threads designed solely to expose Christian inconsistencies & hypocrisies. I'm not a Christian apologist, & don't always want a defensive position. I mean this thread itself is another blanket indictment of (perceived) Christian failings. Peace
That's exactly why the OP started this thread . . .to bait for the purpose of confrontation.
You believe that only because you are a universalist. Again, God does not intend to save anyone who doesn't personally trust in Christ Jesus for eternal life.
And it seems that you are also a Calvinist since you believe that regeneration precedes faith. It does not. Faith is a result of believing the gospel message about Jesus. That faith is the means by which a person takes hold of the free gift of eternal life.
Calvinism is as wrong headed as Universalism.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved (regenerated) through faith . . .
From Paul's own mouth, faith precedes regeneration. Period.
Your entire premise is flawed Michael....what many of us are trying to say is that God does not save anyone who does not trust in Him like you said but even yet while we were sinners, God reached out to us, not the other way around. He ENABLES that trust , He is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith lest any man boast. You are simply boasting because you think the saved are the ones who figured it out. Jesus said ' You didn't choose me, I chose you" ... how did the disciples come into existence..did they query Jesus first? NO! He hand picked them. He hand picks us , not the other way around. He knows each man's heart. Not every fruit is ripe 100 % of the time either.
Loving Christians? We exist. We follow the teachings of Jesus. We don't hate. We respect the faith of other people, and we think that taking care of the poor, the weak, the marginalized, the vulnerable the hungry, and the poor is what Jesus would want, and so we try our best to do that.
Where you will not find us, - Mega-churches, Hobby Lobby, Moderator cut: No politics, driving trucks with American Flags, Chick A Filet, driving our children to Christian Academies, deciding who should and who should not marry or raise children.
On Sunday, many of us attend smaller mainline denominational churches that are nothing like rock concerts.
At our food pantries, we do not ask clients to pray, confess, or "accept the Lord" before we feed the hungry.
We are here.
Good to hear from you Sheena.
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Good to hear from you Sheena.
