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Except that we are forgiven when we receive Christ as Savior but in a different way than at the cross. You simply can't ignore Acts 10:43 and Acts 26:18 both of which state that forgiveness of sins occurs when you receive Jesus as Savior.
Acts 10:43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Acts 26:18 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
As I said, judicial judgment and forgiveness of sins occurred at the cross, BUT, forgiveness of sins in a relational sense occurs when a person receives Jesus as Savior just a relational forgiveness of the believer's sins after salvation occurs when he confesses his sins as per 1 John 1:9.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Yes. Those that believe in Jesus are forgiven. And God accomplishes our salvation at the cross. He predestines us to election. Salvation is of the Lord. Not decisions.
At this point though, we're close enough, we don't need to argue over these details. You disagree? Ok.
actually no you are not close enough there is a very wide gap in your beliefs.
The only one who demonstrated agape love is Jesus, we still all have the old man nature and what you see is the war between the old man and the new man. Also Attacking one belief is not attacking the person although way to many take it personally as if what they believe defines them. I am way to old and my beliefs have changed as I have matured to believe I am defined by what I believe. Thus I don't take these attacks on my belief personally.
I was referring to the tone of what you call disagreement. And viewing the posts in r egards to the title of the thread.
Has it ever occurred to you that the goal of the apostles in the book of Acts was to preach Jesus for salvation? They died for it.
Meanwhile you, as a universalist, seem to think that preaching Jesus is just about making people feel better about themselves?
this post tells me you do not have an understanding of what we teach BF. which tells me you either skip over what we say or misrepresent what we say. Also even those who believe in the salvation of all have differing ideas as to how God will accomplish all that He sent Jesus to do.
For myself I speak of the judgments/correction of God, I speak of the wrath/law of God so what it come down to is what we each believe those things are.
You and many others here seem to believe that there is no purpose in the wrath/judgments of God while I see that God ALWAYS has a purpose in that which He does.
Paul is not saying we are saved via faith, he is saying we are saved via grace. Read the whole thing
Eph.2:1-10
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Regeneration happens while we are dead in our sins. No one who is dead in sin has any faith in God until they have been regenerated.
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Thus we are regenerated, faith in God kicks in and this was all before ordained by God. We are born of God by the will of God not by blood or the will of the flesh or the will of man.
We must be born again (regenerated) BEFORE one can have faith in God, believe in Him and walk after the spirit.
What you are saying mike is that BEFORE we are born again we have faith to believe in God and walk after the spirit and scripture does not bare that idea out.
You are saying those dead in sin can save themselves by faith, yet scripture tells us that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Thus if Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith why do you boast of being saved by your own faith?
Ezekiel tells us that it is God who puts a new spirit in us so that they may walk in My statutes, and keep My ordinances and do them.
19 And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within [a]them. And I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20 so that they may walk in My statutes, and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God.
The carnal mind is enmity against God , it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be mike, so how can those who have not been regenerated have faith in God if their minds are at enmity with God?
We are also told that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Before we are regenerated we are the natural man and the natural man recieveth not the things of the spirit, thus we must FIRST be born again (regenerated) in order to receive the things of the spirit.
And like I said a leopard cannot change it spots, but you somehow believe it can.
You read the whole thing. Paul is saying that we are saved by grace through faith. Neither grace or faith are gifts. Salvation is the gift and it is received by faith.
Faith precedes regeneration. No one is born again until he first receives Jesus as Savior. As Jesus himself said time after time to those he healed, ''Your faith has saved you.'' And he wasn't just referring to being delivered from their sickness or condition.
Faith is the means by which a person reaches out and takes possession of the gift of salvation which is offered. It is not doing something meritorious to earn salvation.
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-03-2021 at 02:25 PM..
Yes. Those that believe in Jesus are forgiven. And God accomplishes our salvation at the cross. He predestines us to election. Salvation is of the Lord. Not decisions.
At this point though, we're close enough, we don't need to argue over these details. You disagree? Ok.
No. Jesus made salvation possible at the cross. But no one is saved until they first personally receive Christ as Savior. And a decision is exactly what is required. When the gospel message is presented and it is understood by the one hearing the message, he must either accept it or reject it. If having heard and understood the gospel, and if he then is persuaded by the message he will place his faith in Christ. If he is not persuaded then he will reject the gospel message.
No one is predestined to salvation. What the believer is predestined to is to be conformed to the image of Christ.
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