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They've been drive away by you and others. The ones that are left are the ones that do love, but when we get attacked mercilessly over and over again you assume we're full of hate.
attacking your understanding is not attacking you and you guys do the same so why cry saying it is all us? Charlie and JBF are perfect example of this, but I do not take it personal I take it as the way it is meant as attacking what they believe is in error.
The invasion of, and welcoming of, divisive politics into churches and so-called Christians certainly doesn't help. As if the whole preaching/proselytizing that has been a hallmark of religion and churchiness hasn't been enough, now we have that extra level for further dividing and antagonizing. I know we can't go into that subject here, but it can't be ignored or denied as a cause for the lessening of love and understanding, which should be a major element of Christianity.
Really, we are getting it more wrong over time, rather than more 'right' and closer to the Jesus' intentions and early ministry. Even here, it's mostly devolved into personal bickering, finger-pointing, and backbiting (which will solve nothing). This isn't a matter of a few people; it's widespread amongst millions. Being honest with ourselves of the immensity of the problem is critical, and not perpetuating problems with personal attacks is the other major component.
For the most part, we no longer have personal responsibility in words and actions like there once was. It's "anything goes" these days. Anything - no matter how corrupt or divisive - is and will be used by so-called Christians and the church. And most either look the other way, or actively engage in it, so the sickness grows and the gulf widens.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 08-03-2021 at 09:40 AM..
God sent Jesus to save the world and if the world is not saved then God missed his mark (sinned) which means He failed to do what He said He would do and the reason Jesus was sent. Your view is simply illogical
well from my understanding of Calvinism they believe in predestination, which is scriptural, but they seem to hold God predestinated some to heaven and some to hell, they believe this because they only understand predestination in part. Predestination is only to life and has nothing to do with predestinating some to hell.
I believe in the salvation of all so can hardly be called a Calvinist.
I also noticed when you quoted Paul you only quoted half the verse and if you had of quoted it all you would have seen your error. here is the full verse.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Thus when you look at the whole scripture it can easily be seen that regeneration precedes faith and if you read the verses that follow it makes it crystal clear.
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
You do not partake in our salvation mike, salvation is ALL OF GOD.
Can a leopard change his spots?
No and neither can YOU.
Regeneration MUST take place before faith can be activated. You simply want to boast that you take part in the process.
The idea that regeneration must take place before faith 'can be activated' is Calvanistic. The apostle Paul completely debunked that idea because he said in no uncertain terms that we are saved through faith. In order words, faith precedes regeneration. Period.
Ephesians 2:8 is not saying that faith is the gift of God, and I have posted about this on other threads. The grammar doesn't allow it. A pronoun must agree with its antecedent noun in number and gender.
In Ephesians 2:8 the pronoun 'τοῦτο-this' is neuter gender while both nouns 'grace' and 'faith' are feminine gender. Therefore 'this gift' is not referring to either grace or faith but to Paul's main message. It is salvation that is the free gift of God. Not faith. And no, I am not making it up.
Is Faith a Gift? – A Study of Ephesians 2:8
A major problem with this position concerns the grammar. If Paul wanted to refer to pistis (“faith”), he could have written the feminine haute, instead of the neuter touto, and his meaning would have been clear. Why would he change the gender if he wanted to refer to pistis?[26]
A neuter pronoun may also be used to refer to a phrase or summarize a thought. This seems to be the best solution in Ephesians 2:8. Touto refers back to the entire phrase te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos (“for by grace you have been saved through faith”). Therefore, the whole salvation experience, which occurs by means of the grace of God when a person believes, is what is referred to by kai touto ouk ex hyman (“and this not of yourselves”).[27]
F. The Gift of God
Since touto refers to the previous phrase te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos (“for by grace you have been saved through faith”), Theou to doron (“the gift of God”) is salvation. God gives everlasting life, by grace, to the one who believes in Christ. Theou (“of God”) is placed first here for emphasis and to create a contrast with ouk ex hymon (“not of yourselves”).[32] Grace is not a gift, it is the basis of the gift.[33] Faith is not a gift, it is the means by which the gift is received. Salvation is the gift. Hoehner writes: “This salvation does not have its source in man (it is ‘not from yourselves’), but rather, its source is God’s grace, for ‘it is the gift of God.”[34]
And no, God is not a failure if the entire world isn't saved. God provided the means of salvation but whether a person is saved or not depends upon whether he personally receives Jesus as Savior. Period.
Oh, by the way, there was a temporary spiritual gift of faith as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 12:9, but that has nothing to do with faith regarding salvation. As Paul said, not everyone received this spiritual gift of faith - 'to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit.'
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-03-2021 at 09:51 AM..
The idea that regeneration must take place before faith 'can be activated' is Calvanistic. The apostle Paul completely debunked that idea because he said in no uncertain terms that we are saved through faith. In order words, faith precedes regeneration. Period.
Michael Way, I tried to rep you, but it won’t let me yet. Here you go.
Thanks Jimmie. I suspect though that it will go in one ear and out the other. These Universalists simply don't know how to properly interpret scripture and are disconnected from reality.
Mine was forgiven as soon as a forgave others. It's a two-way street. It's ok to be human and make mistakes, that's where growth comes from. It's ok to be a little petty, a little jealous, a little judgmental, a bit of a hypocrite. If you weren't you wouldn't be human.
Thanks Jimmie. I suspect though that it will go in one ear and out the other. These Universalists simply don't know how to properly interpret scripture and are disconnected from reality.
For that sin what do you call down on them? How would you want to be treated if you had it wrong?
As we approach the Tribulation Matt 24:12 tells us "the love of most will grow cold"...........watch the news and it sure looks like we are getting close.........out here in SoCal we just had two stellar teens get shot in the back of the head in cold blood......no known reason........hispanic guy about 22 years old........shocking even for out here....
In a judicial sense our sins were judged and forgiven at the cross.
In a relational sense the unbeliever's sins are forgiven at the moment he receives Jesus as Savior.
As a believer your sins are forgiven the moment you simply acknowledge the sin or sins to God as per 1 John 1:9.
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