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I suppose that the person in question can be identified as a Christian under the broad definition of these boards by which we define who is a Christian; that a Christian is someone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord".
But I would contend that not everyone who is defined as a Christian necessarily has a right to the kingdom of heaven.
That right is secured by the fact of believing in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross. This is how I would define a believer under the narrower terms of my own specification. I believe that salvation is obtained only through faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross, in dying as a propitiatory sacrifice by which He took our place on Calvary and took the penalty of God's just requirement that our sins be punished. He died in our place (1 Corinthians 15:1-4); and this is the only way to salvation; to believe in Jesus and what He did for you, and to keep in memory what He did for you on the Cross (again, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Except that you also exclude certain denominations, regardless of what they believe with respect to Corinthians 15:1-4.
I suppose that the person in question can be identified as a Christian under the broad definition of these boards by which we define who is a Christian; that a Christian is someone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord".
But I would contend that not everyone who is defined as a Christian necessarily has a right to the kingdom of heaven.
That right is secured by the fact of believing in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross. This is how I would define a believer under the narrower terms of my own specification. I believe that salvation is obtained only through faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross, in dying as a propitiatory sacrifice by which He took our place on Calvary and took the penalty of God's just requirement that our sins be punished. He died in our place (1 Corinthians 15:1-4); and this is the only way to salvation; to believe in Jesus and what He did for you, and to keep in memory what He did for you on the Cross (again, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
You are a very ignorant and stubborn man. I believe Jesus saved us on the Cross. I just reject your absurd explanation of how and why He did. That is NOT rejecting Jesus on the Cross as my Savior. That is not disbelieving in Him! It is disbelieving in the primitive and barbaric explanation for it that YOU believe in.
The result is the same. God is NOT counting our sins against us because Jesus achieved perfection as a human relieving us of the need to achieve perfection. His perfect agape love and forgiveness (Grace) as the Comforter covers our imperfections before God.
You are a very ignorant and stubborn man. I believe Jesus saved us on the Cross. I just reject your absurd explanation of how and why He did. That is NOT rejecting Jesus on the Cross as my Savior. That is not disbelieving in Him! It is disbelieving in the primitive and barbaric explanation for it that YOU believe in.
The result is the same. God is NOT counting our sins against us because Jesus achieved perfection as a human relieving us of the need to achieve perfection. His perfect agape love and forgiveness (Grace) as the Comforter covers our imperfections before God.
You are not forgiven through what Jesus did for you on the Cross...
I have read your posts enough to know that you believe that Jesus died on the Cross in order to set an example for us of how we are to live.
But if you are not forgiven through the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross, you are not forgiven at all (see Hebrews 9:22).
You cannot possibly live up to the standard that God requires. As long as you are seeking to enter in through your own merits; through following the example of Jesus' agape love; you are in effect under the law; and this means that you are required to obey every requirement in the law from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48) if you are going to be saved through your own goodness. Attempting to be saved by your own goodness effectively places you under the law. If you are under the law and do not succeed at keeping it perfectly, you will die in your sins and will not enter into heaven when you pass into the next life.
Even those who are sticklers for the law do not measure up to it (Galatians 6:13); and, again, those who seek to enter into the kingdom of heaven on the basis of their own goodness have effectively placed themselves under the law.
If you say that you will enter into the kingdom through loving people as Jesus loved people, know that every time you fail to love as Jesus loved, you have sinned and come short of the glory of God; and know also that the wages of sin is death (see Romans 3:23, 6:23).
Except that you also exclude certain denominations, regardless of what they believe with respect to Corinthians 15:1-4.
No, I do not exclude any denomination; for I believe that you are defining some that would be referred to as cults, as denominations.
It should be clear that if any organization preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus of the Bible, they are attempting with the devil to corrupt people's minds from the simplicity that is in Christ (2 Corinthians 11:3-4).
You are not forgiven through what Jesus did for you on the Cross...
I have read your posts enough to know that you believe that Jesus died on the Cross in order to set an example for us of how we are to live.
But if you are not forgiven through the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross, you are not forgiven at all (see Hebrews 9:22).
You cannot possibly live up to the standard that God requires. As long as you are seeking to enter in through your own merits; through following the example of Jesus' agape love; you are in effect under the law; and this means that you are required to obey every requirement in the law from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48) if you are going to be saved through your own goodness. Attempting to be saved by your own goodness effectively places you under the law. If you are under the law and do not succeed at keeping it perfectly, you will die in your sins and will not enter into heaven when you pass into the next life.
Even those who are sticklers for the law do not measure up to it (Galatians 6:13); and, again, those who seek to enter into the kingdom of heaven on the basis of their own goodness have effectively placed themselves under the law.
If you say that you will enter into the kingdom through loving people as Jesus loved people, know that every time you fail to love as Jesus loved, you have sinned and come short of the glory of God; and know also that the wages of sin is death (see Romans 3:23, 6:23).
You are an incredibly ignorant and stubborn man. We are not under any requirement to earn our salvation. Jesus achieved that for us, JBF. We are responsible for what we build on the foundation of agape love and forgiveness that Jesus laid for us. What we build or do not build on that foundation of agape love will be subject to fire, but we are saved by what Jesus accomplished.
We can't rely on what we do or believe for our salvation because we have nothing to do with it. It is all Jesus and it is finished. However, what we reap from what we sow is definitely up to us. If we love God and each other every day and repent when we fail, we have nothing to worry about, period! If we don't and are relying on something we do or do not do or believe or do not believe, all bets are off in the reaping and sowing department!
You are an incredibly ignorant and stubborn man. We are not under any requirement to earn our salvation. Jesus achieved that for us, JBF. We are responsible for what we build on the foundation of agape love and forgiveness that Jesus laid for us. What we build or do not build on that foundation of agape love will be subject to fire, but we are saved by what Jesus accomplished.
We can't rely on what we do or believe for our salvation because we have nothing to do with it. It is all Jesus and it is finished. However, what we reap from what we sow is definitely up to us. If we love God and each other every day and repent when we fail, we have nothing to worry about, period! If we don't and are relying on something we do or do not do or believe or do not believe, all bets are off in the reaping and sowing department!
You are obviously unaware of the purpose of the law in holy scripture. It is to show us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour.
Its purpose is to show us that we cannot live up to it so that we will turn to Christ for our salvation and be saved.
Those who seek to enter into the kingdom on their own merits are in fact under the law; and that means that they are under a curse (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).
The only way to not be under the law is to be forgiven through the shed blood of Christ.
Otherwise, if you are seeking to enter in to the kingdom on the basis of your own goodness, you will find that you are required to keep the whole law (Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:3-4).
And I can see that you are indeed attempting to enter in on the basis of your own goodness. For you believe that your entrance into the kingdom is based on "resonating with Christ" and "living according to God's Spirit of agape love" (correct me if I'm wrong).
You are obviously unaware of the purpose of the law in holy scripture. It is to show us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour.
Its purpose is to show us that we cannot live up to it so that we will turn to Christ for our salvation and be saved.
Those who seek to enter into the kingdom on their own merits are in fact under the law; and that means that they are under a curse (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).
The only way to not be under the law is to be forgiven through the shed blood of Christ.
Of course that was the purpose of the law to show us how impossible it is for us to keep it perfectly. That is also the reason God came as a HUMAN to do it for us!!!! That is why what He achieved on the Cross relieved us of our imperfections (sins). He removed the need for us to achieve perfect agape love. Unfortunately, thanks to our ignorant, savage, and brutal ancestors, He had to pay for it with His shed blood on the Cross, But NOT because GOD demanded it!!!
Of course that was the purpose of the law to show us how impossible it is for us to keep it perfectly. That is also the reason God came as a HUMAN to do it for us!!!! That is why what He achieved on the Cross relieved us of our imperfections (sins). He removed the need for us to achieve perfect agape love. Unfortunately, thanks to our ignorant, savage, and brutal ancestors, He had to pay for it with His shed blood on the Cross, But NOT because GOD demanded it!!!
Yes because God demanded it!
Your doctrine is becoming more like the mormon lie now; in which certain words are used that are agreeable to the Christian, but certain meanings are attached to the words so that they have an entirely different meaning than the meaning that is given for them in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The reality is that God brings to us the forgiveness of sins through the Cross of Jesus Christ.
God the Father forgives us of our wrongdoing through His shed blood.
If your gospel does not agree with these statements, then it is a false gospel and is to be rejected by anyone who truly desires salvation.
No, I do not exclude any denomination; for I believe that you are defining some that would be referred to as cults, as denominations.
You obviously don't know the meaning of the word, "cult." To you, it just means a denomination you don't like.
Quote:
It should be clear that if any organization preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus of the Bible, they are attempting with the devil to corrupt people's minds from the simplicity that is in Christ (2 Corinthians 11:3-4).
That should be clear, alright. It's amazing how many people complicate Jesus Christ's gospel. And they've been doing it every since Paul spoke those words.
You obviously don't know the meaning of the word, "cult." To you, it just means a denomination you don't like.
It is defined by Walter Martin's book on "The Kingdom of the Cults".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
That should be clear, alright. It's amazing how many people complicate Jesus Christ's gospel. And they've been doing it every since Paul spoke those words.
Nice deflection; as if mormonism doesn't remove people from the simplicity that is in Christ.
What it does is change the meaning of basic words in holy scripture so that the message that you receive from holy scripture is different from the message that you would have if you had never read mormon documents.
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