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Is this mormon doctrine also or your own personal belief?
Psa 58:3, The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
I would say that one of the lies that is most often spoken from the womb and later on in life is, "I am a good person who is deserving of heaven."
Have you considered Jeremiah 17:9?
What lie did you tell before you were even able to talk? Obviously, this passage is to be recognized as a hyperbole. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. If you believe that Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of mankind, you can't very well say that Adam was exempt from the Atonement.
And if little children were contaminated with sin, why do you suppose that Jesus Christ himself said: “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God”? Why did He say that "Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven”? Does that sound to you as if He thought little children were born wicked and deserving of damnation? He was saying exactly the opposite.
Do your research. Then you can thank Augustine for this nonsense.
Take some scissors and cut Psalms 58:3 out of your Bible.
Because that is what you have effectively done in your heart by denying the doctrine that comes from that verse.
Do you think I haven't noticed that you never actually respond to my questions, justbyfaith? What lie did you tell as soon as you were born? Or was Psalm 58:3 not referring to you?
I'll make you a deal. I'll cut Psalms 38:3 out of my Bible if you'll cut Matthew 18:3 out of yours. Agreed?
Quote:
Just be sure to realize what it says in Revelation 22:18-19.
Trying to put a gag order on God, huh? Why in the world would you think that "this book" as mentioned in these verses is referring to the Bible as a whole? Any Christian who has studied the biblical canon at all knows better than that. The Bible didn't even exist when John received his revelation. The revelation was warning that no one should change the words written by John. Holy cow! You really are more uneducated about the Bible that I thought you were.
Take some scissors and cut Psalms 58:3 out of your Bible.
Because that is what you have effectively done in your heart by denying the doctrine that comes from that verse.
Just be sure to realize what it says in Revelation 22:18-19.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
Do you think I haven't noticed that you never actually respond to my questions, justbyfaith? What lie did you tell as soon as you were born? Or was Psalm 58:3 not referring to you?
I'll make you a deal. I'll cut Psalms 38:3 out of my Bible if you'll cut Matthew 18:3 out of yours. Agreed?
Trying to put a gag order on God, huh? Why in the world would you think that "this book" as mentioned in these verses is referring to the Bible as a whole? Any Christian who has studied the biblical canon at all knows better than that. The Bible didn't even exist when John received his revelation. The revelation was warning that no one should change the words written by John. Holy cow! You really are more uneducated about the Bible that I thought you were.
Just looking at your interactions with JBF across the threads I think this has to do with judgement, levels, timing
This comes down to the different interpretations, translations that the church is build upon - in their own successive “generations”
Starting at the Apostolic, then prophetic, then teachers, then all the Un-numbered
1Co 12:27**Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28**And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29**Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30**Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31**But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
What I believe is we are at the latter end stage, with the “diversity of tongues”
He is quite happy to trash your biblical/religious parentage (Mormonism) as unorthodox, but fails to understand that in judging you for your doctrines/beliefs that he is equally unorthodox himself being a product of the “oneness” Pentecostal system (and of the same generational “era” “age”)
He is quite happy to trash your biblical/religious parentage (Mormonism) as unorthodox, but fails to understand that in judging you for your doctrines/beliefs that he is equally unorthodox himself being a product of the “oneness” Pentecostal system (of the same generational “era” “age”)
I know. It's just so obvious. And it's also obvious that he is completely unwilling to be open to looking at anything from a different perspective. I guess it's just a matter of fear of being presented with anything that might cause you to have to question your own background.
I know. It's just so obvious. And it's also obvious that he is completely unwilling to be open to looking at anything from a different perspective. I guess it's just a matter of fear of being presented with anything that might cause you to have to question your own background.
You have pegged him perfectly, Katz. He is terrified of confronting the possibility that what he has come to so fervently believe is wrong. It must be terrible to be so terrified of God that you are unwilling to test what you believe against alternative perspectives even when the alternative is from what Jesus Christ Himself actually revealed by His actions and attitude on the Cross, NOT what men have interpreted decades after His death from what He supposedly revealed to them.
If death and the grave (i.e., hades/hell) are thrown in the Lake of fire as the second death.
Then, you have the death of death, no more dying, as death will be non-existent.
However, going over this at a deeper level with you would be an utter waste of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
People will be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 is written after Revelation 20:11-15 and Revelation 21:5.
Again, discussing anything with you is an utter waste of time.
What lie did you tell before you were even able to talk? Obviously, this passage is to be recognized as a hyperbole. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. If you believe that Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of mankind, you can't very well say that Adam was exempt from the Atonement.
And if little children were contaminated with sin, why do you suppose that Jesus Christ himself said: “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God”? Why did He say that "Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven”? Does that sound to you as if He thought little children were born wicked and deserving of damnation? He was saying exactly the opposite.
Do your research. Then you can thank Augustine for this nonsense.
He is a literalist without any comprehension of figurative language consisting of; simile, metaphor, hyperbole, pun, idioms, metonymy, personification, synecdoche, exaggeration, understatement, irony, sarcasm, allusion – and many more, which bring written words to life. In addition to the characters, plot, themes or various points of view from the writer’s perspectives; not everything is to be taken literally.
He is a literalist without any comprehension of figurative language consisting of; simile, metaphor, hyperbole, pun, idioms, metonymy, personification, synecdoche, exaggeration, understatement, irony, sarcasm, allusion – and many more, which bring written words to life. In addition to the characters, plot, themes or various points of view from the writer’s perspectives; not everything is to be taken literally.
I know. It's just so obvious. And it's also obvious that he is completely unwilling to be open to looking at anything from a different perspective. I guess it's just a matter of fear of being presented with anything that might cause you to have to question your own background.
I think a fair amount of people are just incapable of recognizing that other viewpoints could have validity to them. I was taught the complete opposite of that and I think many other fundamentalist sects do that as well. Especially in the realm of religion having another viewpoint is dismissed out of hand as evil. It is entirely possible that it is out of fear of having their own beliefs exposed as fallacious but it's not a given. It is possible they just believe strongly that they can't be deceived.
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