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Yoy guys can blame atheists all you want however readibg this thread and most other threads it is Christsins attacking Christains. There is no demostration of love towards non believers, believers of other religions or towards fellow Christains who have differing views .
Sorry but all the caims that Christainity is about love and you are all full of agape love comes accross as only hot air and holliw claims.
Im a non believer so you can slam and ibsult me all tou want, but that will not change how many of not most of the posters come accross.
Yep, just as Paul attacked Peter when he was wrong. Just as Jesus attacked when they were wrong.
The lesson learned is that scripture is the criteria for right and wrong, and the true Christian will see his error and repent as did Peter.
But we have many that will NOT recognize the scripture as right and wrong but will deny it and continue in their wrong ways.
If you notice the ones that cry "where is the love" are the who will not obey the that scripture!
The idea that regeneration must take place before faith 'can be activated' is Calvanistic. The apostle Paul completely debunked that idea because he said in no uncertain terms that we are saved through faith. In order words, faith precedes regeneration. Period.
Ephesians 2:8 is not saying that faith is the gift of God, and I have posted about this on other threads. The grammar doesn't allow it. A pronoun must agree with its antecedent noun in number and gender.
In Ephesians 2:8 the pronoun 'τοῦτο-this' is neuter gender while both nouns 'grace' and 'faith' are feminine gender. Therefore 'this gift' is not referring to either grace or faith but to Paul's main message. It is salvation that is the free gift of God. Not faith. And no, I am not making it up.
Is Faith a Gift? – A Study of Ephesians 2:8
A major problem with this position concerns the grammar. If Paul wanted to refer to pistis (“faith”), he could have written the feminine haute, instead of the neuter touto, and his meaning would have been clear. Why would he change the gender if he wanted to refer to pistis?[26]
A neuter pronoun may also be used to refer to a phrase or summarize a thought. This seems to be the best solution in Ephesians 2:8. Touto refers back to the entire phrase te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos (“for by grace you have been saved through faith”). Therefore, the whole salvation experience, which occurs by means of the grace of God when a person believes, is what is referred to by kai touto ouk ex hyman (“and this not of yourselves”).[27]
F. The Gift of God
Since touto refers to the previous phrase te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos (“for by grace you have been saved through faith”), Theou to doron (“the gift of God”) is salvation. God gives everlasting life, by grace, to the one who believes in Christ. Theou (“of God”) is placed first here for emphasis and to create a contrast with ouk ex hymon (“not of yourselves”).[32] Grace is not a gift, it is the basis of the gift.[33] Faith is not a gift, it is the means by which the gift is received. Salvation is the gift. Hoehner writes: “This salvation does not have its source in man (it is ‘not from yourselves’), but rather, its source is God’s grace, for ‘it is the gift of God.”[34]
And no, God is not a failure if the entire world isn't saved. God provided the means of salvation but whether a person is saved or not depends upon whether he personally receives Jesus as Savior. Period.
Oh, by the way, there was a temporary spiritual gift of faith as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 12:9, but that has nothing to do with faith regarding salvation. As Paul said, not everyone received this spiritual gift of faith - 'to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit.'
Paul is not saying we are saved via faith, he is saying we are saved via grace. Read the whole thing
Eph.2:1-10
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Regeneration happens while we are dead in our sins. No one who is dead in sin has any faith in God until they have been regenerated.
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Thus we are regenerated, faith in God kicks in and this was all before ordained by God. We are born of God by the will of God not by blood or the will of the flesh or the will of man.
We must be born again (regenerated) BEFORE one can have faith in God, believe in Him and walk after the spirit.
What you are saying mike is that BEFORE we are born again we have faith to believe in God and walk after the spirit and scripture does not bare that idea out.
You are saying those dead in sin can save themselves by faith, yet scripture tells us that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Thus if Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith why do you boast of being saved by your own faith?
Ezekiel tells us that it is God who puts a new spirit in us so that they may walk in My statutes, and keep My ordinances and do them.
19 And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within [a]them. And I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20 so that they may walk in My statutes, and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God.
The carnal mind is enmity against God , it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be mike, so how can those who have not been regenerated have faith in God if their minds are at enmity with God?
We are also told that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Before we are regenerated we are the natural man and the natural man recieveth not the things of the spirit, thus we must FIRST be born again (regenerated) in order to receive the things of the spirit.
And like I said a leopard cannot change it spots, but you somehow believe it can.
There are people in this world that want nothing to do with God.
We see in revelation when God is sending judgement on earth, the people curse Him and want to die.
The scripture says, "and they did not repent of their sins."
These people are cast into the lake of fire at the final judgement, Mystic.
A generation in hell is not going change that hatred toward God!
And they will not enter into His rest, ever!
You are mistaken, people do not want anything to do with extreme, religious fundamentalists; it's not about a God. If you have been convinced you are a sinner in need of a cure, that's the first-step in brainwashing you to believe in those other false ideologies that you hold (i.e., HELL and DAMNATION). Including that of blood sacrificing. Which are Pagan concepts that have been adopted by those within Christianism. For how others worship their gods, so will you.
Yoy guys can blame atheists all you want however readibg this thread and most other threads it is Christsins attacking Christains. There is no demostration of love towards non believers, believers of other religions or towards fellow Christains who have differing views .
Sorry but all the caims that Christainity is about love and you are all full of agape love comes accross as only hot air and holliw claims.
Im a non believer so you can slam and ibsult me all tou want, but that will not change how many of not most of the posters come accross.
The only one who demonstrated agape love is Jesus, we still all have the old man nature and what you see is the war between the old man and the new man. Also Attacking one belief is not attacking the person although way to many take it personally as if what they believe defines them. I am way to old and my beliefs have changed as I have matured to believe I am defined by what I believe. Thus I don't take these attacks on my belief personally.
You're correct, in that Colossians 2 says they're forgiven at the cross. And what is forgiven us, God won't condemn us for.
Ephesians 1 states that God predestines us to be forgiven. John 1 says we are born again not of our own will, but of God. John 6 says we are given to Jesus by the Father. John 17 is also clear in that it's God doing the work of salvation, as is Ephesians 2:8-9.
Now..as for the mechanics of it? We can debate that. But it's clear that God forgives us before we decide to follow him. He knows who his are.
if an offence against God is eternal NO ONE could ever be forgiven.
Sure they could. But not by finite sacrifices.
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