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What grieves me is this confrontational attitude that you both have towards each other
We are not to judge each other, we are to judge the words and meaning while having the correct manner, attitude
To separate/divide between “things”
We are to separate the wheat from the chaff, the chaff holds the wheat until maturity - if you get rid of the chaff too soon the wheat is ruined
1Co 4:5**Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
agree,
1"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,"
this is not understood just like this: "The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues..." Paul said this before NT appeared, for his church. Argument of such sort would not be in Paul's church but today is the age of Gideon's Bible, so, everyone knows...
agree,
1"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,"
this is not understood just like this: "The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues..." Paul said this before NT appeared, for his church. Argument of such sort would not be in Paul's church but today is the age of Gideon's Bible, so, everyone knows...
There are these different types in all generations- the structure is developed over generations inspired by the Spirit that has revealed the appropriate information relating to that season/time Only
That is why it is said it is not given for the men to be given knowledge of the times, seasons - people are blinded to what is not relevant to their own level/area/ability/gift
Signs of the End of the Age
Mat 24:3**And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4**And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5**For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
<snip>
The Lesson of the Fig Tree
Mat 24:32**Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33**So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34**Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35**Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
No One Knows That Day and Hour
Mat 24:36**But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37**But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Act 1:6**When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7**And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
There are these different types in all generations- the structure is developed over generations inspired by the Spirit that has revealed the appropriate information relating to that season/time Only
That is why it is said it is not given for the men to be given knowledge of the times, seasons - people are blinded to what is not relevant to their own level/area/ability/gift
Signs of the End of the Age
Mat 24:3**And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4**And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5**For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
<snip>
The Lesson of the Fig Tree
Mat 24:32**Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33**So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34**Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35**Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
No One Knows That Day and Hour
Mat 24:36**But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37**But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Act 1:6**When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7**And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
generally , there was a significant decline in human abilities to connect with the Spirit, the world of 1 Cor 2:14 won Christian world. it is almost gone. Spiritual 'milk consumption' overtook Christianity. We need Paul back to revive it, but i am afraid He will not be accepted, everyone has KJV.
hmm while that is the purpose of the wrath/judgments of God BF whether you believe it or not.
So a good person who has helped people out his whole life, a loving father and husband but one who never accepted Jesus is to be eternally torment because according to you that person is an evil doer?
And as you seem to be a Calvinist how can that person who never accepted Jesus ever have any chance if he is not one of the elect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
There is no such thing as a "good person" who God has not regenerated.
He won't want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
well we will disagree here as I have met more unbelievers who a more loving and kind to others then I have Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
That's like saying one pig was less covered in manure after wallowing in their sty.
Yes. Many unbelievers are decent, honest, moral people. But compared to God they are not even close to being "good". The fact that you can't fathom that is the issue. If you only recognized the depth of your own sin and the holy nature of God you wouldn't say that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Pneuma was not comparing non believers to God. Why do you compare us non believers to a higher standard than you would your fellow Christains?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Go back and read the post. Pneuma specifically mentioned unbelievers. And then I went on to say that yes, many unbelievers are decent, nice, moral people.
Follow the conversation. We were talking about all of us compared to God.
No you follow the conversation, we were talking about people being good and you said no one is good until God regenerates them. In other words only Christians in your eyes can be considered good.
We were not comparing anyone to God as there is no comparison except Christ.
Isaiah 64:6 says "We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment."
"Polluted garment" actually means menstrual rags.
That's what God thinks of our "good works". Compared to his holiness, none of us are just.
Again. My point is that none of us are "good" compared to God. We are all sinners, and we all need a savior. You might be a relatively great person. Perhaps the most moral person on earth. I'm sure you're great compared to me, at least in your own eyes. But compared to God, who is the judge, none of us are.
that is not what you originally said here is your quote.
Quote:
There is no such thing as a "good person" who God has not regenerated.
in other words you are saying only those who have been regenerated by God could be considered good.
Could you explain in your own words exactly how this mere belief has anything to do with our salvation???
One must receive what Jesus has done for him in order to have salvation.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). And, the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23); or, eternal separation from God.
Jesus died on the Cross in order to take the penalty for our sins. The just penalty for what we have done that is wrong, He took upon Himself, in order that God might show mercy to us.
Because there are two irreconcilable attributes in the heart of God.
Justice requires that the exact penalty be meted out for crimes committed;
While mercy desires that less than the just penalty be meted out.
Therefore you cannot have both justice and mercy.
Enter the Cross.
In the Cross, justice is satisfied and mercy can also be given; because Jesus took upon Himself the just penalty for the crimes committed; and therefore God can mete out to the sinner less than what his iniquities deserve; because the price has been paid.
Quote:
Oh, it is barbaric. Blood sacrifice is an extreme version of the scapegoat or whipping boy system. I will be interested to see your answer to the question above justifying how mere belief in such an atrocity saves us from anything.
Okay, good, I think that I have explained it well enough above.
Quote:
Since it was our ancestors' sinful wrath that executed Jesus why would you think it propitiated God's wrath???
See above.
Quote:
That is true, but YOU are NOT preaching Jesus of the Cross. You are preaching Jesus of the Bible because preaching Jesus of the Cross is foolishness to you. It is "wimpy," "Hippie," and "panty-waisted."
I never said that the Jesus of the Cross is "wimpy", "Hippie" or "panty-waisted" and neither have I said that about your (false) Jesus.
I will say that the true Jesus is indeed righteous, or, just (1 John 2:1).
And, I would say also that the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Cross are one and the same Jesus.
Of course, the Jesus of the Bible died on the Cross as a propitiation (Romans 3:25).
Last edited by justbyfaith; 08-05-2021 at 09:15 AM..
One must receive what Jesus has done for him in order to have salvation.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). And, the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23); or, eternal separation from God.
Jesus died on the Cross in order to take the penalty for our sins. The just penalty for what we have done that is wrong, He took upon Himself, in order that God might show mercy to us.
Because there are two irreconcilable attributes in the heart of God.
Justice requires that the exact penalty be meted out for crimes committed;
While mercy desires that less than the just penalty be meted out.
Therefore you cannot have both justice and mercy.
Enter the Cross.
In the Cross, justice is satisfied and mercy can also be given; because Jesus took upon Himself the just penalty for the crimes committed; and therefore God can mete out to the sinner less than what his iniquities deserve; because the price has been paid.
Okay, good, I think that I have explained it well enough above.
See above.
I never said that the Jesus of the Cross is "wimpy", "Hippie" or "panty-waisted" and neither have I said that about your (false) Jesus.
I will say that the true Jesus is indeed righteous, or, just (1 John 2:1).
And, I would say also that the Jesus of the bible and the Jesus of the Cross are one and the same Jesus.
Of course, the Jesus of the Bible died on the Cross as a propitiation (Romans 3:25).
No you follow the conversation, we were talking about people being good and you said no one is good until God regenerates them. In other words only Christians in your eyes can be considered good.
We were not comparing anyone to God as there is no comparison except Christ.
Why do you believe I said they're "good"? Have I ever said you cannot be one of them? Have I ever said that it's a goodness intrinsic in said person?
One must receive what Jesus has done for him in order to have salvation.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). And, the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23); or, eternal separation from God.
Jesus died on the Cross in order to take the penalty for our sins. The just penalty for what we have done that is wrong, He took upon Himself, in order that God might show mercy to us.
Because there are two irreconcilable attributes in the heart of God.
Justice requires that the exact penalty be meted out for crimes committed;
While mercy desires that less than the just penalty be meted out.
Therefore you cannot have both justice and mercy.
Enter the Cross.
In the Cross, justice is satisfied and mercy can also be given; because Jesus took upon Himself the just penalty for the crimes committed; and therefore God can mete out to the sinner less than what his iniquities deserve; because the price has been paid.
Okay, good, I think that I have explained it well enough above.
See above.
I never said that the Jesus of the Cross is "wimpy", "Hippie" or "panty-waisted" and neither have I said that about your (false) Jesus.
I will say that the true Jesus is indeed righteous, or, just (1 John 2:1).
And, I would say also that the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Cross are one and the same Jesus.
Of course, the Jesus of the Bible died on the Cross as a propitiation (Romans 3:25).
God has no irreconcilable attributes, but we seem to have irreconcilable views of God, JBF. Your answers not only were unhelpful, but they also were not answers. Thanks for trying, but we simply do not see the same God that Jesus unambiguously demonstrated on the Cross. Christ's God of agape love NEVER has to be appeased by anything, let alone such a horrendous and evil brutality.
that is not what you originally said here is your quote.
in other words you are saying only those who have been regenerated by God could be considered good.
Yes. Those that are regenerated and are under the blood of Christ are "good" in his eyes. Not because of what we've done, but because of the righteousness of Christ that covers us.
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