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There is the Jesus of the Bible -- and then a host of false Christ's who are already in the world and will increase in the End Time.
Along these lines, I'm wondering if the false Christ's referenced by Jesus - are actually people claiming to be Jesus Christ (ie; Jones, Koresh, Sun Moon, etc); -- OR are they false depictions of a Christ who is far different than the Christ of Scripture(?). These might include, for example:
1. A "Christ" to whom sin is 'not an issue,' but, who loves mankind too much to ever allow the 'death wages of sin' or any type of eternal separation from God.
2. A "Christ" who automatically claims all people as His "children," and for whom a lifetime of rebellion against God, Christ and the Holy Spirit ... holds no consequences ("wages")
3. A "Christ" who is 'only LOVE' and forgiveness ... and for whom 'sin' does not exist.
4. A "Christ" who gave His own life on the cross --- so mankind would understand the depth and width of God's love; but a cross which holds no other significance.
5. A "narrow-minded Christ" of Scripture/the Bible, who only seeks love, but has no regard or concern for what might be written in "an ancient book written by ignorant people."
IMO, these are the "false Christ's" spoken of by Jesus, who will appear in the Last Days.
I would just edit #3 to say ...and for whom sin is not dealt with. I agree with you on all these. However, many people would find these kinds of Christs a more pleasant concept than the one who is revealed and written of in God's word. That one is too harsh so man must have invented him (Why?? I certainly wouldn't want to have a God that would condemn anyone to punishment eternally. Geez, just end their existence; it's far kinder. So why in the world would anyone come up with that?). A loving, kind God who would never punish anyone eternally is much more palatable. We can work with that one. These things are going to be under our terms you see.
I would just edit #3 to say ...and for whom sin is not dealt with. I agree with you on all these. However, many people would find these kinds of Christs a more pleasant concept than the one who is revealed and written of in God's word. That one is too harsh so man must have invented him (Why?? I certainly wouldn't want to have a God that would condemn anyone to punishment eternally. Geez, just end their existence; it's far kinder. So why in the world would anyone come up with that?). A loving, kind God who would never punish anyone eternally is much more palatable. We can work with that one. These things are going to be under our terms you see.
Why would you need an eternal (infinite) punishment for a finite crime?
Especially, for not believing the false theology of eternal damnation.
I would just edit #3 to say ...and for whom sin is not dealt with. I agree with you on all these. However, many people would find these kinds of Christs a more pleasant concept than the one who is revealed and written of in God's word. That one is too harsh so man must have invented him (Why?? I certainly wouldn't want to have a God that would condemn anyone to punishment eternally. Geez, just end their existence; it's far kinder. So why in the world would anyone come up with that?). A loving, kind God who would never punish anyone eternally is much more palatable. We can work with that one. These things are going to be under our terms you see.
Basil: Anything that is on our terms falls drastically below His! If any of us thinks the One who is Author & Finisher leaves one wee aspect of His plan on "our terms you see" has serious discombobulation.
Why would you need an eternal (infinite) punishment for a finite crime?
Especially, for not believing the false theology of eternal damnation.
There is no such animal in Father's barnyard as aidios kolasis. The purpose of the Father of all father's is change and transformation in His correction, NOT unending stupidity.
"If you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them.†~ Sir Thomas More
The creation was made subject to futility NOT WILLINGLY...
There is no such animal in Father's barnyard as aidios kolasis. The purpose of the Father of all father's is change and transformation in His correction, NOT unending stupidity.
"If you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them.†~ Sir Thomas More
The creation was made subject to futility NOT WILLINGLY...
2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Basil: Anything that is on our terms falls drastically below His! If any of us thinks the One who is Author & Finisher leaves one wee aspect of His plan on "our terms you see" has serious discombobulation.
Sarcasm doesn't carry over very well in writing. I'm just going to take this as that you agree with me on that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Why would you need an eternal (infinite) punishment for a finite crime?
God considers all sin as committed against him, therefore an infinite crime against an infinite being. I don't quite understand this either, but you can take that up with him. I'm still holding out that somehow the doctrines through which God brought me to faith were wrong in this area and there is some sort of annihilation for those that were basically good people but just did not believe in God. But, that is clearly not what Jesus describes in his descriptions of the last judgment and punishment.
Still, the eternal thing just horrifies and sickens me. But in no way do I believe I am more merciful and kinder than God; that is craziness talking. He is perfect in every way, entirely pure in all his aspects and works. I trust in the Lord and lean not on my very marred, imperfect and corrupted with sin understanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Especially, for not believing the false theology of eternal damnation.
No, that's not how it works. Many believers who trust in Jesus for righteousness do not believe in eternal damnation. Many believe in false doctrines. Doctrinal inaccuracy is not what gets people condemned. It's not trusting in Jesus in order to stand before the presence of God unharmed. I always like to say, It's a good thing we're not given a doctrinal examination at the judgment seat--every single one of us will fail.
Sarcasm doesn't carry over very well in writing. I'm just going to take this as that you agree with me on that point.
God considers all sin as committed against him, therefore an infinite crime against an infinite being. I don't quite understand this either, but you can take that up with him. I'm still holding out that somehow the doctrines through which God brought me to faith were wrong in this area and there is some sort of annihilation for those that were basically good people but just did not believe in God. But, that is clearly not what Jesus describes in his descriptions of the last judgment and punishment.
Still, the eternal thing just horrifies and sickens me. But in no way do I believe I am more merciful and kinder than God; that is craziness talking. He is perfect in every way, entirely pure in all his aspects and works. I trust in the Lord and lean not on my very marred, imperfect and corrupted with sin understanding.
No, that's not how it works. Many believers who trust in Jesus for righteousness do not believe in eternal damnation. Many believe in false doctrines. Doctrinal inaccuracy is not what gets people condemned. It's not trusting in Jesus in order to stand before the presence of God unharmed. I always like to say, It's a good thing we're not given a doctrinal examination at the judgment seat--every single one of us will fail.
Basil: The draw into the Christ is a wonderful road of becoming. It begins as a child, (actually before that), and leads ultimately to full stature of sons and daughters walking with their Elder Brother, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Sin is not simply wrong doing, it is wrong being, clearly defined in the Divine equation of Romans 5.
The problem =
Absolutely all, the fullest magnitude, "were made sinners."
The rectification =
The identical all are made righteous.
There is exactly one passage of Canon speaking of "everlasting punishment" / aionios kolasis. The foundation for everlasting punishment = ? ? ? ? ?
Everlasting punishment
Search = "everlasting punishment"
Results = 1 verse found (Matt. 25:46)
The five (5) qualifications for aionios kolasis/ everlasting punishment according to the Master of reconciliation =
1.________________?
2.________________?
3.________________?
4.________________?
5.________________?
I was hungry, and you gave me no meat. #1
I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink. #2
I was a stranger, and you took me not in. #3
I was naked, and you clothed me not. #4
I was sick, and in prison, and you visited me not. #5
I would just edit #3 to say ...and for whom sin is not dealt with. I agree with you on all these. However, many people would find these kinds of Christs a more pleasant concept than the one who is revealed and written of in God's word. That one is too harsh so man must have invented him (Why?? I certainly wouldn't want to have a God that would condemn anyone to punishment eternally. Geez, just end their existence; it's far kinder. So why in the world would anyone come up with that?). A loving, kind God who would never punish anyone eternally is much more palatable. We can work with that one. These things are going to be under our terms you see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Why would you need an eternal (infinite) punishment for a finite crime?
Especially, for not believing the false theology of eternal damnation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basiliximab
God considers all sin as committed against him, therefore an infinite crime against an infinite being. I don't quite understand this either, but you can take that up with him. I'm still holding out that somehow the doctrines through which God brought me to faith were wrong in this area and there is some sort of annihilation for those that were basically good people but just did not believe in God. But, that is clearly not what Jesus describes in his descriptions of the last judgment and punishment.
Still, the eternal thing just horrifies and sickens me. But in no way do I believe I am more merciful and kinder than God; that is craziness talking. He is perfect in every way, entirely pure in all his aspects and works. I trust in the Lord and lean not on my very marred, imperfect and corrupted with sin understanding.
No, that's not how it works. Many believers who trust in Jesus for righteousness do not believe in eternal damnation. Many believe in false doctrines. Doctrinal inaccuracy is not what gets people condemned. It's not trusting in Jesus in order to stand before the presence of God unharmed. I always like to say, It's a good thing we're not given a doctrinal examination at the judgment seat--every single one of us will fail.
Of course not, it's merely not believing that condemns a person to your preferred ...extinction?
Of course not, it's merely not believing that condemns a person to your preferred ...extinction?
Not trusting in God's word and believing in Jesus, that he alone can provide what we need to dwell with God for eternity. Yes, that is basically what provides for condemnation, whatever that is. Jesus describes it as everlasting torment. I can only hope he was speaking figuratively or something (extinction as you worded the annihilation which is favored by many Christians in my mind is a lot nicer than punishing someone forever). But I stand by my Lord's words. He alone is the way to the Father. There is no other.
You can mock me if you want (as many mock those like me who believe in the Bible, the orthodox interpretation of it as it is put forth in the Westminster Confessions of Faith). My Lord was mocked before the Romans who spat on him and laughed at him when he was blinded saying "Prophesy--who is it that hit you!" I will share in the trials of my beloved Saviour. The situation is very similar "How is it that you believe in this? I suppose it's not obvious to your obtuse mind that this is clearly wrong". Your reply was mocking and it is a shame that someone who, at least I thought you did unless I'm just mis-remembering your posts, claimed the name of Christian would be mocking to another believer. It is why I don't frequent these boards because it is full of those who wish to put down and not build up, as you are doing.
But I stand by the words of my Lord Jesus and tell you as he did that He alone saves. That all who do not believe upon him will be cast out. At the last day I will stand before him because I put my trust in Him and in Him alone.
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Of course not, it's merely not believing that condemns a person to your preferred ...extinction?
