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Not trusting in God's word and believing in Jesus, that he alone can provide what we need to dwell with God for eternity. Yes, that is basically what provides for condemnation, whatever that is. Jesus describes it as everlasting torment. I can only hope he was speaking figuratively or something (extinction as you worded the annihilation which is favored by many Christians in my mind is a lot nicer than punishing someone forever). But I stand by my Lord's words. He alone is the way to the Father. There is no other.
You can mock me if you want (as many mock those like me who believe in the Bible, the orthodox interpretation of it as it is put forth in the Westminster Confessions of Faith). My Lord was mocked before the Romans who spat on him and laughed at him when he was blinded saying "Prophesy--who is it that hit you!" I will share in the trials of my beloved Saviour. The situation is very similar "How is it that you believe in this? I suppose it's not obvious to your obtuse mind that this is clearly wrong". Your reply was mocking and it is a shame that someone who, at least I thought you did unless I'm just mis-remembering your posts, claimed the name of Christian would be mocking to another believer. It is why I don't frequent these boards because it is full of those who wish to put down and not build up, as you are doing.
But I stand by the words of my Lord Jesus and tell you as he did that He alone saves. That all who do not believe upon him will be cast out. At the last day I will stand before him because I put my trust in Him and in Him alone.
If only the bold were true, Basil, but you do not trust Jesus alone. You trust the interpretations of men as recorded in the Bible despite their many contradictions and inconsistencies with God's Holy Spirit of agape love that Jesus unambiguously demonstrated on the Cross. That is the revelation of God's True Nature that you should believe and reject anything that stinks of human corruption, wrath, and vengeance. Our loving Father has no such human wrath and vengeance.
Of course not, it's merely not believing that condemns a person to your preferred ...extinction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basiliximab
Not trusting in God's word and believing in Jesus, that he alone can provide what we need to dwell with God for eternity. Yes, that is basically what provides for condemnation, whatever that is. Jesus describes it as everlasting torment. I can only hope he was speaking figuratively or something (extinction as you worded the annihilation which is favored by many Christians in my mind is a lot nicer than punishing someone forever). But I stand by my Lord's words. He alone is the way to the Father. There is no other.
You can mock me if you want (as many mock those like me who believe in the Bible, the orthodox interpretation of it as it is put forth in the Westminster Confessions of Faith). My Lord was mocked before the Romans who spat on him and laughed at him when he was blinded saying "Prophesy--who is it that hit you!" I will share in the trials of my beloved Saviour. The situation is very similar "How is it that you believe in this? I suppose it's not obvious to your obtuse mind that this is clearly wrong". Your reply was mocking and it is a shame that someone who, at least I thought you did unless I'm just mis-remembering your posts, claimed the name of Christian would be mocking to another believer. It is why I don't frequent these boards because it is full of those who wish to put down and not build up, as you are doing.
But I stand by the words of my Lord Jesus and tell you as he did that He alone saves. That all who do not believe upon him will be cast out. At the last day I will stand before him because I put my trust in Him and in Him alone.
I don't use the label, nor am I mocking: The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion) or eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (age-abiding) kalasin (chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter. It is not talking about eternity, rather the quality of life, which will be one of righteousness or a period of correction to set things right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
If only the bold were true, Basil, but you do not trust Jesus alone. You trust the interpretations of men as recorded in the Bible despite their many contradictions and inconsistencies with God's Holy Spirit of agape love that Jesus unambiguously demonstrated on the Cross. That is the revelation of God's True Nature that you should believe and reject anything that stinks of human corruption, wrath, and vengeance. Our loving Father has no such human wrath and vengeance.
I don't use the label, nor am I mocking: The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion) or eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (age-abiding) kalasin (chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter. It is not talking about eternity, rather the quality of life, which will be one of righteousness or a period of correction to set things right!
I don't use the label, nor am I mocking: The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion) or eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (age-abiding) kalasin (chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter. It is not talking about eternity, rather the quality of life, which will be one of righteousness or a period of correction to set things right!
Scholars have been locked in argument for centuries over the true meaning and usage of "aion/aionios.
But Jerwade has settled it, yeah, right!
If you want to settle something, show us in scripture that period of correction and purifying you guys keep talking about. Good luck with that!
The scripture plainly places man in hell, but where does he ever get out? Settle that!
Surly you don't intend to settle anything with one Greek word that is filled with controversy!
I don't use the label, nor am I mocking: The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion) or eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, at least not in conjunction. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion (age-abiding) kalasin (chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter. It is not talking about eternity, rather the quality of life, which will be one of righteousness or a period of correction to set things right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
Scholars have been locked in argument for centuries over the true meaning and usage of "aion/aionios.
But Jerwade has settled it, yeah, right!
If you want to settle something, show us in scripture that period of correction and purifying you guys keep talking about. Good luck with that!
The scripture plainly places man in hell, but where does he ever get out? Settle that!
Surly you don't intend to settle anything with one Greek word that is filled with controversy!
Obviously, you have put your fingers in your ear, and have no intention of comprehending. And I have no reason, nor the desire to entertain you. Remain in your ignorance concerning your false doctrines within the realm of your rote learning that taught you - your ABC's and basic numbers as a toddler. The Hell you believe-in does not exist, neither is it relevant to anything called reality.
Obviously, you have put your fingers in your ear, and have no intention of comprehending. And I have no reason, nor the desire to entertain you. Remain in your ignorance concerning your false doctrines within the realm of your rote learning that taught you - your ABC's and basic numbers as a toddler. The Hell you believe-in does not exist, neither is it relevant to anything called reality.
I'll remain in the scripture and what it says, not some fantasy invented by man!
If only the bold were true, Basil, but you do not trust Jesus alone. You trust the interpretations of men as recorded in the Bible despite their many contradictions and inconsistencies with God's Holy Spirit of agape love that Jesus unambiguously demonstrated on the Cross. That is the revelation of God's True Nature that you should believe and reject anything that stinks of human corruption, wrath, and vengeance. Our loving Father has no such human wrath and vengeance.
Well Mystic, we will find out which Jesus is the true one on the last day. The one which has been revealed to you outside of God's word or the one that is revealed in God's word which you say has been made up by men. We'll find out when we get there. I again state that I stand upon the word of God. And just to clarify since there are a great very many Jesus' to trust in--I trust in the Jesus that is revealed by God in his word, the Bible. I know you do not trust in that one. Neither do I trust in the Jesus that you believe in. It will be made known to us one day, in a very short time.
Jerwade, that is why I still hold out hope that maybe the eternal torment isn't true. I unfortunately cannot be convinced by what you write as I barely know you or your qualifications; but I do not believe that any denomination on earth has all the doctrines 100% correct. The eternal torment one not being true is my greatest wish. I just cannot come to a strong belief that it is not.
Well Mystic, we will find out which Jesus is the true one on the last day. The one which has been revealed to you outside of God's word or the one that is revealed in God's word which you say has been made up by men. We'll find out when we get there. I again state that I stand upon the word of God. And just to clarify since there are a great very many Jesus' to trust in--I trust in the Jesus that is revealed by God in his word, the Bible. I know you do not trust in that one. Neither do I trust in the Jesus that you believe in. It will be made known to us one day, in a very short time.
That is not true, Basil. I trust in the Jesus revealed and unambiguously described in the Bible narrative based on His nature and attitude during scourging and crucifixion. Retaining agape love and forgiveness under such horrendous treatment, even for His torturers and murderers, is an unambiguous demonstration of a mind devoid of wrath or vengeance. That is the "mind of Christ" that I use to know the "mind of God," NOT the primitive and barbaric minds of our ancient ancestors who mistakenly believed God was wrathful and vengeful.
That is not true, Basil. I trust in the Jesus revealed and unambiguously described in the Bible narrative based on His nature and attitude during scourging and crucifixion.
At least according to your presuppositions.
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Of course not, it's merely not believing that condemns a person to your preferred ...extinction?
