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Universal, worldwide is the same and you are correct in part because the other denomination all hold to erroneous views, which errors have crept into the what you consider the universal church for the church for the first 500 years of it's birth taught universal salvation, thus it's name.
Regrettably, it did not promote exclusive membership in any one institution established by men rendering it useless.
I decided to start a new thread to continue the conversation I was having with Jerwade in the Christianity and the LGBTQ Community (Part 3) thread that had veered off topic and onto the issue of male authority, or "male dominance" as Jerwade characterizes it.
I want to start by responding to this post by Jerwade:
How were women treated? It's true that in many cases, women were treated as chattel in pagan societies. However, women have, by and large, been treated with dignity in Christian societies.
There is nothing wrong with discrimination. Every time we make a choice, we discriminate against all of the other alternative choices we could have made.
There is nothing wrong with inequality, per se. Humans are not equal. Men and women are not equal.
Again I ask, how do you define "dominance"? By the way you're using the word, it seems to me that you're attempting to use it as a rhetorical cudgel against the Christian notion of male headship.
Since greater than 50% of the population of the world at any given time has always been female, I object to your using the word "dominance" to describe man in relation to woman. "Dominance" implies the flourishing of one at the expense of another. Maybe you can explain how you see that happening either historically or presently in Christian societies...
I wonder if it started when hygiene wasn't. Something to do with just a sloppy mess following us around everywhere getting in the way of ... everything. I wonder what an experiment using tools of the day would show. 45000 yrs ago, 10000 yrs ago, 2000 yrs ago, as recently as 200 yrs ago.
I'm definitely not saying that. Depending on what you mean by "women's empowerment", I'm doubtful that it's even desirable.
"Unimportant"? How so, I wonder?
Wives ought to be subject to their husbands. Paul says as much.
Certainly, I can agree with that.
Whatever axiom a country may or may not have is really not relevant to this topic, as national axioms do not determine the proper order of Creation which was established by God long before any political union was established.
I have refrained from directly addressing the OP because I find the premise so hateful, unjustifiable, and evil it is difficult to control my ire. There is absolutely nothing I can detect in the possession of male genitalia that engenders any spiritual or cognitive superiority over those with the female genitalia. Since it is our spiritual or cognitive development that matters to our ultimate fate, the ignorant and unjustified discrimination using physical genitalia is completely ludicrous!!!
Historically, women were treated as property, or less-than, however that has, and is changing over time as we continue to advance as a society or civilization. If you believe the CHURCH has always treated women with dignity – than you don’t know it's history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
<snipped>
In Christian societies? Can you give an example?
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As a person who was fascinated with medieval life, particularly as regards the nobility, I'll take this one.
Women in medieval Europe were trading cards between royal houses, and as we know, the Church was intertwined with the power structures to the point where the Vatican approved/disapproved or directed the futures of women-as-bargaining-chips along with those in power they favored or disfavored. Oftentimes women whose existence was inconvenient after a change in power were sent to the convent whether they felt a calling to a religious life or not. It was not a choice, but the collaboration of church and state.
I have refrained from directly addressing the OP because I find the premise so hateful, unjustifiable, and evil it is difficult to control my ire. There is absolutely nothing I can detect in the possession of male genitalia that engenders any spiritual or cognitive superiority over those with the female genitalia. Since it is our spiritual or cognitive development that matters to our ultimate fate, the ignorant and unjustified discrimination using physical genitalia is completely ludicrous!!!
and again psychic vs pneumatic issue around issue of Eve was deceived by a snake...
and again psychic vs pneumatic issue around issue of Eve was deceived by a snake...
Duval, your posts would be better understood here if you stopped using the jargon of Gnosticism and referred to the different mentalities involved as the natural man (psychic) and the spiritual man (pneumatic).
Duval, your posts would be better understood here if you stopped using the jargon of Gnosticism and referred to the different mentalities involved as the natural man (psychic) and the spiritual man (pneumatic).
well, I think translation hide real meaning. Paul, in Greek, really meant soul like vs spirit like. This is why why I would not use psychic interpretation for psychics just to stress situation. Psychic vs Pneumatic issue is one of main lines of NT. It explains maturity.
"2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven..." -this is impossible for soul like nature.
I think , i start use soul- like and spirit-like, thanx.
I have refrained from directly addressing the OP because I find the premise so hateful, unjustifiable, and evil it is difficult to control my ire. There is absolutely nothing I can detect in the possession of male genitalia that engenders any spiritual or cognitive superiority over those with the female genitalia. Since it is our spiritual or cognitive development that matters to our ultimate fate, the ignorant and unjustified discrimination using physical genitalia is completely ludicrous!!!
There is no difference between men and women when it comes to spiritual or cognitive abilities/potential. There is also no difference when it comes to their potential for salvation, their "ultimate fate". The difference lies in the roles they have been assigned by the Creator at creation, even before the fall.
Man was created first. Woman was created from man and for man, to be a helper suitable for him. It is the proper order of creation that a woman is to be subject to her husband with respect to authority.
As a person who was fascinated with medieval life, particularly as regards the nobility, I'll take this one.
Women in medieval Europe were trading cards between royal houses, and as we know, the Church was intertwined with the power structures to the point where the Vatican approved/disapproved or directed the futures of women-as-bargaining-chips along with those in power they favored or disfavored. Oftentimes women whose existence was inconvenient after a change in power were sent to the convent whether they felt a calling to a religious life or not. It was not a choice, but the collaboration of church and state.
Thanks for responding.
Certainly abuses have taken place throughout history, but I'm not willing to concede that all of the things you mentioned were always wrong or unjust.
The idea that everyone should be free to make their own choices and should not be subject to authority is not an historically Christian one. Like it or not, in a Catholic society, as Medieval ones were, the authority of the Church and State in these matters was legitimate. Were their decisions always just and prudent? No, but that can be attributed to human error and human sin and is not a problem inherent to the system.
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Regrettably, it did not promote exclusive membership in any one institution established by men rendering it useless.
