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There is no difference between men and women when it comes to spiritual or cognitive abilities/potential. There is also no difference when it comes to their potential for salvation, their "ultimate fate". The difference lies in the roles they have been assigned by the Creator at creation, even before the fall.
Man was created first. Woman was created from man and for man, to be a helper suitable for him. It is the proper order of creation that a woman is to be subject to her husband with respect to authority.
You must be a leftover Neanderthal who somehow escaped extinction. The only genuinely different roles of men and women refer to the reproduction of life. Men seed and women give birth. If any role is more important, the more important role is to give birth to new life. Otherwise, there is no difference in our ability to occupy ANY of the many roles that do not involve giving birth to new life.
well, I think translation hide real meaning. Paul, in Greek, really meant soul like vs spirit like. This is why why I would not use psychic interpretation for psychics just to stress situation. Psychic vs Pneumatic issue is one of main lines of NT. It explains maturity.
"2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven..." -this is impossible for soul like nature.
I think , i start use soul- like and spirit-like, thanx.
I use the word soulish myself but some think I am speaking a different language
I decided to start a new thread to continue the conversation I was having with Jerwade in the Christianity and the LGBTQ Community (Part 3) thread that had veered off topic and onto the issue of male authority, or "male dominance" as Jerwade characterizes it.
I want to start by responding to this post by Jerwade:
How were women treated? It's true that in many cases, women were treated as chattel in pagan societies. However, women have, by and large, been treated with dignity in Christian societies.
There is nothing wrong with discrimination. Every time we make a choice, we discriminate against all of the other alternative choices we could have made.
There is nothing wrong with inequality, per se. Humans are not equal. Men and women are not equal.
Again I ask, how do you define "dominance"? By the way you're using the word, it seems to me that you're attempting to use it as a rhetorical cudgel against the Christian notion of male headship.
Since greater than 50% of the population of the world at any given time has always been female, I object to your using the word "dominance" to describe man in relation to woman. "Dominance" implies the flourishing of one at the expense of another. Maybe you can explain how you see that happening either historically or presently in Christian societies...
A great way to determine how a female is to be treated can be seen from the way Jesus treats the congregation, willingly giving up his life for it.
We are the head of the woman, as Jesus is our head. We should treat them as he treats us.
As a person who was fascinated with medieval life, particularly as regards the nobility, I'll take this one.
Women in medieval Europe were trading cards between royal houses, and as we know, the Church was intertwined with the power structures to the point where the Vatican approved/disapproved or directed the futures of women-as-bargaining-chips along with those in power they favored or disfavored. Oftentimes women whose existence was inconvenient after a change in power were sent to the convent whether they felt a calling to a religious life or not. It was not a choice, but the collaboration of church and state.
What does that have to do with the current discussion? Do you believe the Bible promotes that? That Jesus and the apostles taught such a thing?
There is nothing wrong with inequality, per se. Humans are not equal. Men and women are not equal.
I think it is important to frame what kind of equality you are talking about.
No two humans are exactly identical, not even identical twins are exact...for example they have different fingerprints and perhaps can have slightly different environmental factors. In this sense, yes people are unequal. I am short, most are taller than me. I have small hands with thin fingers, most have bigger hands. I have very bright blue eyes, most have darker eyes. I eat very healthy and exercise all the time, I am fitter than most. I am not the smartest or most educated out there, and many are above me on that. People do have differences. We are not "Xerox copies."
An oak tree in my yard has so many leaves I wouldn't care to count them all. No leaf was exactly identical to another leaf, but all the leaves had the same purpose and added a value to the tree.
Humans aren't identical, but we do have equality. We are all made in God's image so we all have a divine spark and that makes us equal before God. God doesn't value me more or less than someone who has different attributes than myself.
Therefore we deserve equality here on earth. We all deserve the same right to vote, or the same right to live in peace, or the same right to aspire for a certain type of job, etc.....
Men and women are equal...equal religiously before God...equal politically before the law...etc... But yes we may have some differences as men tend to be taller or stronger, with many exceptions...women perhaps have our advantages like compassion or pain tolerance with exceptions again.
Only if we treat those whom we expect too much from as if they can make that decision. Some women are adults. Some women are still children. You can understand when a woman submits. You know she agrees with you. How can you do that with a child?
That isn't to say anything about anyone committing abuse. I'm just bringing up an obvious thing, that I think everyone else will see too. And, since we all are such complex creatures, I don't necessarily trust when I am being told that she does understand.
Then there is the whole question of whether my positions have any merit to begin with. I mean, the story goes that the man and the woman weren't so ignorant in the garden. Before they took the fruit they used to get along pretty well. But, even then, the woman was curious enough to be tempted.
The submission thing appears to be a result after our expulsion, not something apparent in our original state. You know, however, it may have been. But that might not be the slander against the woman that we want it to be, if we only see this that way.
It could be that she could see something that God wanted to hide. But she didn't see it in a nefarious way. This is borne out in passages that talk about Jesus' death being baked into the cake from the foundation of the world. We always had to go through this. Those that wish we had clung to our innocence are barking up the wrong tree!
You must be a leftover Neanderthal who somehow escaped extinction. The only genuinely different roles of men and women refer to the reproduction of life. Men seed and women give birth. If any role is more important, the more important role is to give birth to new life. Otherwise, there is no difference in our ability to occupy ANY of the many roles that do not involve giving birth to new life.
The equality view that you have just espoused is not an historically Christian view, but is thoroughly a modern one. I do not claim that a man's role is more important than a woman's.
In fact, the single most important role ever served by a human being was that of the woman who bore the Son of God, thereby crushing the serpent's head.
The Catholic Faith esteems woman more so than any other religion in history. Are you unfamiliar with the honor and devotion we show to the Blessed Virgin Mary?
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