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Taking off my Irkle beanie for a moment, here’s my perspective:
Forums such as this are artificial environments comprising anonymous internet persona. For all anyone knows, “Irkle Berserkle” is actually a 17-year-old atheist punk sitting in his parents’ garage. For all anyone knows – or at least, for all I know, “KathrynAragon” is actually a hulking male truck driver named Bubba.
I find the notions of “true Christian love” and “natural affection” in this context to be more than slightly bizarre. For “Irkle Berserkle” to express deep sorrow to “KathrynAragon” for her loss would strike me as phony if not comical.
I’ve always believed the beauty of internet forums is that they are raw mind-to-mind communication. What you see is what you get. Respond to Irkle’s ideas; whether he is a complete phony and/or the worst person in the world should make no difference.
Irkle, as I have said before, is simply a vehicle I use to communicate on these particular forums. I choose to keep “me” in the background because I don’t believe personal discussions are appropriate or wise in this context. I prefer to deal, to the maximum extent I can, in ideas. Yes, matters of intellect.
This is what I meant by my “fodder” comment. Fodder was probably the wrong word since it does have a negative connotation. I enjoyed Kathryn’s post about her late husband, off-topic as it may have been. Probably if I had just said “I too lost a beloved spouse of 33 years, but I choose not to discuss such matters on forums such as this,” I would’ve provoked no firestorm.
Forums such as this always seem to comprise two distinct categories of participants: those like me and those who regard them as social outlets and the other participants as some species of family and friends. It seems to me that Direct Messages are more appropriate for personal discussions among those who actually know each other.
So what do we see here? Does anyone express “true Christian love” and “natural affection” to poor old Irkle for the loss of his wife? Uh, not exactly. We really know nothing about this Irkle character, but we know we can’t stand him. The whole “true Christian love” thing flies out the window because, as it always is, it’s actually “highly selective true Christian love” (if it can be called Christian love with a straight face at all).
Then some supercilious nobody goes so far as to question the reality of my self-described encounter with God! “No real Christian would fail to express deep sorrow to the anonymous internet character calling herself KathrynAragon – harumph, harumph.” What happened to the “true Christian love” thing here? It’s all just completely and obviously silly, which is why I decline to play the game.
Irkle deals in matters of intellect because that’s what I believe is appropriate to an internet forum. I as Irkle’s creator do not confuse the intellect with the heart; indeed, one primary emphasis of my original post here is that the “one essential of Christianity” has nothing to do with the intellect. But of course, this point went right past most respondents because just seeing the name Irkle Berserkle sends them into paroxysms of vitriol like “holier than thou rant” (hey, what happened to the “true Christian love” thing, there, huh?).
I feel confident in saying that the puppet master behind Irkle would compare quite favorably with anyone here in terms of kindness, generosity and other fruits of the Spirit – but so what, what does any of that have to do with the discussions here? Should I perhaps request the moderators to change my name to Sweetie Pie and adopt a kinder, gentler persona that will leave you all beaming at my sheer sweetie-pieness? Will I then become, voila, a good Christian and a candidate for the Niceness Hall of Fame?
Sorry, but it’s all just ridiculous. I treat it as ridiculous. Irkle is a pompous hardass because I have fun with him. The fury you level at him just shows you don’t get the joke – not just about Irkle but about the entire artificial world of internet forums.
Deeply sorry for your loss, Kathryn, if that is in fact your name and you in fact suffered the loss of your husband. Seriously, the best single piece of advice I received when my wife died was “Don’t make ANY significant decisions for a year or two. Even though you think you're thinking clearly, you aren’t.” Fortunately, I heeded this advice and all the idiotic decisions I made were insignificant ones.
It has nothing to do with being mean to Irkle. It has to do with posing as the embodiment of Christian niceness, agape love, yada yada, while demonstrating the contrary on a pretty consistent basis. Irkle just happens to be a lightning rod for these folks.
I get your drift, and others do see this type of hypocrisy of our not always being able to live up to what we preach - and that is directly related to our humanity, and we all share that same burden
These things are all about relativity, Katzpur as an individual does show a lot of consistency, she generally sticks to her religious affiliation doggedly as she should, and also generally to her own personal standards
But we are all human and are liable to err and get provoked by those who have different religious affiliations and personal standards than us and it takes a lot of practice to be able to exercise restraint, to put into practice the things we have learnt by rote, ritual - and to apply things in different ways
And That is exactly the tribulation, corruption, vanity, futility that the “creation” was deliberately placed in/under that is referred to here that relates to the law
Future Glory
Rom 8:18**For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19**For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20**For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21**Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22**For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23**And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:5**For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6**For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7**Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8**So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9**But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10**And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11**But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Taking off my Irkle beanie for a moment, here’s my perspective:
Sorry, but it’s all just ridiculous. I treat it as ridiculous. Irkle is a pompous hardass because I have fun with him. The fury you level at him just shows you don’t get the joke – not just about Irkle but about the entire artificial world of internet forums.
The problem with this is that in this type forum, one trying to discuss religion and in large part specifically Christianity, the expectation IS that the person behind the name is genuine. This isnt a dating forum, or FB, or even a politics forum. Its a religious forum ostensibly made up of sincere people here to discuss sincerely held beliefs. If the persona you project is not really you , then what else isnt real? To be honest I have never projected a persona other than what I am on any forum, religion, politics, or science. That seems like work. What you see here is obviously not all of me, but it isnt play acting a created character either.
I guess I miss the point in coming to a place to discuss spiritual things and projecting a false persona for the forum to get riled up at. On the other hand, if what you are saying is that Irkle is just a blustery creation of yours for fun and not the real you, then good deal. We can all know to let that aspect of your posts roll off our collective backs. But I doubt anyone got your joke before you explained it.
Last edited by NatesDude; 10-31-2021 at 06:22 PM..
Taking off my Irkle beanie for a moment, here’s my perspective:
Forums such as this are artificial environments comprising anonymous internet persona. For all anyone knows, “Irkle Berserkle” is actually a 17-year-old atheist punk sitting in his parents’ garage. For all anyone knows – or at least, for all I know, “KathrynAragon” is actually a hulking male truck driver named Bubba.
I find the notions of “true Christian love” and “natural affection” in this context to be more than slightly bizarre. For “Irkle Berserkle” to express deep sorrow to “KathrynAragon” for her loss would strike me as phony if not comical.
I’ve always believed the beauty of internet forums is that they are raw mind-to-mind communication. What you see is what you get. Respond to Irkle’s ideas; whether he is a complete phony and/or the worst person in the world should make no difference.
Irkle, as I have said before, is simply a vehicle I use to communicate on these particular forums. I choose to keep “me” in the background because I don’t believe personal discussions are appropriate or wise in this context. I prefer to deal, to the maximum extent I can, in ideas. Yes, matters of intellect.
This is what I meant by my “fodder” comment. Fodder was probably the wrong word since it does have a negative connotation. I enjoyed Kathryn’s post about her late husband, off-topic as it may have been. Probably if I had just said “I too lost a beloved spouse of 33 years, but I choose not to discuss such matters on forums such as this,” I would’ve provoked no firestorm.
Forums such as this always seem to comprise two distinct categories of participants: those like me and those who regard them as social outlets and the other participants as some species of family and friends. It seems to me that Direct Messages are more appropriate for personal discussions among those who actually know each other.
So what do we see here? Does anyone express “true Christian love” and “natural affection” to poor old Irkle for the loss of his wife? Uh, not exactly. We really know nothing about this Irkle character, but we know we can’t stand him. The whole “true Christian love” thing flies out the window because, as it always is, it’s actually “highly selective true Christian love” (if it can be called Christian love with a straight face at all).
Then some supercilious nobody goes so far as to question the reality of my self-described encounter with God! “No real Christian would fail to express deep sorrow to the anonymous internet character calling herself KathrynAragon – harumph, harumph.” What happened to the “true Christian love” thing here? It’s all just completely and obviously silly, which is why I decline to play the game.
Irkle deals in matters of intellect because that’s what I believe is appropriate to an internet forum. I as Irkle’s creator do not confuse the intellect with the heart; indeed, one primary emphasis of my original post here is that the “one essential of Christianity” has nothing to do with the intellect. But of course, this point went right past most respondents because just seeing the name Irkle Berserkle sends them into paroxysms of vitriol like “holier than thou rant” (hey, what happened to the “true Christian love” thing, there, huh?).
I feel confident in saying that the puppet master behind Irkle would compare quite favorably with anyone here in terms of kindness, generosity and other fruits of the Spirit – but so what, what does any of that have to do with the discussions here? Should I perhaps request the moderators to change my name to Sweetie Pie and adopt a kinder, gentler persona that will leave you all beaming at my sheer sweetie-pieness? Will I then become, voila, a good Christian and a candidate for the Niceness Hall of Fame?
Sorry, but it’s all just ridiculous. I treat it as ridiculous. Irkle is a pompous hardass because I have fun with him. The fury you level at him just shows you don’t get the joke – not just about Irkle but about the entire artificial world of internet forums.
Deeply sorry for your loss, Kathryn, if that is in fact your name and you in fact suffered the loss of your husband. Seriously, the best single piece of advice I received when my wife died was “Don’t make ANY significant decisions for a year or two. Even though you think you're thinking clearly, you aren’t.” Fortunately, I heeded this advice and all the idiotic decisions I made were insignificant ones.
Just to clarify:
Kathryn is not my name. However, the rest of my story is true. I just leave out details which might identify me specifically in real life. So yes, I am a 59 year old woman and yes, my darling husband died unexpectedly and suddenly in 2020. And no, I don't consider this forum to be a social outlet or forum members to be friends of mine, per se. In fact, I've actually never met a forum member "in real life" and I actually do have plenty of friends and family "in real life" as well. I just consider this forum to be a place to have real discussions with other real people.
I don't operate on this forum as if it is an "artificial world" - I mean, I am sure it is to some but it isn't to me.
I agree about your advice in general. That being said, the real estate market went crazy here and I got a great deal on a house a few months ago, so technically it was 8 months since my husband died when I bought this house and sold my other house. It's in the same town though, and like I said, it was a good move financially.
But all that is off topic too.
The point is - yes, this forum is another aspect of the real world, and I believe firmly that the personas that people show us here are aspects of their real personalities too.
You really, truly don't have to express any sympathy to me. I just ask that you remember that you ARE talking to real people here. Not just me (though I'm a real person too). Other real people as well. Katzpur is a real person. Mightyqueen is a real person. Natesdude is a real person. You are too.
Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter. I have other opinions too, but being a REAL nice person, I will keep the more negative ones to myself.
Kathryn is not my name. However, the rest of my story is true. I just leave out details which might identify me specifically in real life. So yes, I am a 59 year old woman and yes, my darling husband died unexpectedly and suddenly in 2020. And no, I don't consider this forum to be a social outlet or forum members to be friends of mine, per se. In fact, I've actually never met a forum member "in real life" and I actually do have plenty of friends and family "in real life" as well. I just consider this forum to be a place to have real discussions with other real people.
I don't operate on this forum as if it is an "artificial world" - I mean, I am sure it is to some but it isn't to me.
I agree about your advice in general. That being said, the real estate market went crazy here and I got a great deal on a house a few months ago, so technically it was 8 months since my husband died when I bought this house and sold my other house. It's in the same town though, and like I said, it was a good move financially.
But all that is off topic too.
The point is - yes, this forum is another aspect of the real world, and I believe firmly that the personas that people show us here are aspects of their real personalities too.
You really, truly don't have to express any sympathy to me. I just ask that you remember that you ARE talking to real people here. Not just me (though I'm a real person too). Other real people as well. Katzpur is a real person. Mightyqueen is a real person. Natesdude is a real person. You are too.
Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter. I have other opinions too, but being a REAL nice person, I will keep the more negative ones to myself.
I'm not, at least not naturally. I've said that often enough on here. One of the reasons I last sought connection with a church was because I am not a nice person by nature and I need to be regularly reminded how we are supposed to be!
Yes, he spoiled me rotten and I adored him. He was just TERRIFIC. I miss him. He'll be a hard act for anyone to follow and so I am just not looking. If God wants to bring someone into my life, He is going to have to make me practically trip over them.
I can't even begin to tell you how sorry I am, Kathryn. You're definitely lucky to have had him. Most women are never that blessed.
I'm not, at least not naturally. I've said that often enough on here. One of the reasons I last sought connection with a church was because I am not a nice person by nature and I need to be regularly reminded how we are supposed to be!
Actually, someone who is really not nice would never have any awareness of it nor any concern about it, MQ. Ergo, you are a nice person because of your concern about being a nice person.
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