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You know, I've had an encounter with God, and I'm sure you have, and both Mystic and Irkle claim to have. I guess that's evidence that we're all Christians, even though our encounters were probably all different from each other's.
But you know, when you stop to think about it, I think the real "one essential" is in what this encounter resulted in. Any true encounter with God should result in the person who had it becoming a kinder, more compassionate, less judgmental person than he was before. Otherwise, what would the purpose of the encounter even be?
You know, I've had an encounter with God, and I'm sure you have, and both Mystic and Irkle claim to have. I guess that's evidence that we're all Christians, even though our encounters were probably all different from each other's.
But you know, when you stop to think about it, I think the real "one essential" is in what this encounter resulted in. Any true encounter with God should result in the person who had it becoming a kinder, more compassionate, less judgmental person than he was before. Otherwise, what would the purpose of the encounter even be?
I would just say an encounter that is accompanied by faith and openness ought to make the person more virtuous - they ought to grow in sanctity.
Now, whether true virtue manifests itself in pop culture notions of "kindness, compassion, and less judgmental" is another question, as I'm not sure we'd agree that those are the same thing.
I would just say an encounter that is accompanied by faith and openness ought to make the person more virtuous - they ought to grow in sanctity.
Now, whether true virtue manifests itself in pop culture notions of "kindness, compassion, and less judgmental" is another question, as I'm not sure we'd agree that those are the same thing.
I don't know. I think "virtuous" pretty much covers all of those things (and I don't see them as "pop culture notions" at all). I think Philippians 4:8 sums it up quite well: "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
I don't know. I think "virtuous" pretty much covers all of those things (and I don't see them as "pop culture notions" at all). I think Philippians 4:8 sums it up quite well: "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
What I meant to imply is that the non-Christian society around us has its own ideas about what is "virtuous" that often conflict with classical Christian ideas of virtue. Contemporary Christianity has in many ways been influenced by this, for the worse I would argue.
Obviously I would agree with this as an atheist who encountered God but without all the doctrinal trappings and preconceptions a typical Christian would have. This means I experienced the essential nature of God's Holy Spirit rendering me capable of recognizing it in the Christian narrative as the Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness demonstrated by Jesus Christ on the Cross as the true Good News Gospel of Christ.
The True Nature of God's Holy Spirit IS the core essence of the Christian faith. It was unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ on the Cross in stark contrast to the dominant belief about the wrathful nature of God among our ancestors. This is why I cannot understand how the dominant orthodoxy EVER came to be accepted, let alone persist for millennia. I agree that such an encounter immunizes you from ever losing your belief in God and Jesus. But I disagree with your belief that the dominant orthodoxy is uncontroversial or that it accurately reflects and is confirmed by a genuine encounter with God. Just the opposite is true!
No one who has actually encountered God would EVER accept the wrathful, vengeful, and punitive things attributed to Him in the Bible. The interpretation of the Eden fable is especially absurd. God would never curse our entire species or create the orthodox doctrine of eternal hell and damnation (or annihilation) for ANY REASON, let alone for eating from the wrong tree or not believing the right things!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
I would just say an encounter that is accompanied by faith and openness ought to make the person more virtuous - they ought to grow in sanctity.
Now, whether true virtue manifests itself in pop culture notions of "kindness, compassion, and less judgmental" is another question, as I'm not sure we'd agree that those are the same thing.
The notions of "kindness, compassion, and less judgmental" are not pop culture notions. They are the heart and soul of Christ's teachings and demonstration on the Cross of God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness even for His torturers and murderers.
The notions of "kindness, compassion, and less judgmental" are not pop culture notions. They are the heart and soul of Christ's teachings and demonstration on the Cross of God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness even for His torturers and murderers.
They can be; but in my experience I've found that they are often used as code words for excusing objectively sinful behavior.
Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he said, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? What do you read there?" He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." And he said to him, "You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live."
Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he said, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? What do you read there?" He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself." And he said to him, "You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live."
It's hard to understand how someone could have a close encounter with God, several close encounters actually, almost supernatural, and daily walks and talks with God for decades and then not identify as a Christian down the road. Unless you have walked that walk and experienced it, it boggles the mind. Yet this is what happened in my life. It's best to not even try to figure it out from an outside vantage point, as whatever could be said would be off the mark. It's easy to speculate and say they didn't really "walk" with God or really "experience" God or the Holy Spirit or any of those other things that make for a devout Christian life. Such speculation could not be more wrong.
Last edited by trobesmom; 10-26-2021 at 01:58 PM..
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