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If Scripture is not the sole authority, then whatever we say, goes. And that means that I can say everyone on this entire thread except for me is wrong. And no one has any ground to disagree. You have no basis for saying Sola Scritura is not correct.
We have a number of people here that believe "everyone except me is wrong."
When you and your pastor both believe in sticking to the word, but you come to find that you have an interpretive disagreement on something you feel is important or even critical to the faith, what do you do?
If only that were true, Mike, our disagreements would disappear, but it is NOT true. You do not know what the Holy Spirit IS. It is not some supernatural person. It is a state of mind that reflects the "character" of its Spirit. In the case of God, the Holy Spirit is the character of God's consciousness - The "mind of God." Our ONLY source of its "character" is the "mind of Christ." I put the explanation in my blog.
Instead of Sola Scriptura, we should all be guided by Solus Spiritus Sanctus as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross. If your Catholic Church and it leaders were actually guided by the Holy Spirit (in the states of mind associated with the Holy Spirit) they would not believe or teach the primitive and barbaric nonsense that they do and have done over the millennia!
To review,
Philippians 2:5-30 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
When we are in the states of mind associated with the "mind of Christ" we are guided by His Holy Spirit and cannot do anything wrong. We can only do wrong in other states of mind. We are to read the scriptures using the "mind of Christ" using His agape love and forgiveness, NOT wrath to see what Jesus (and the prophets) actually were trying to tell us, NOT what our primitive ancestors THOUGHT they were trying to tell us using their primitive beliefs about their wrathful War God. That is how you study to show yourself approved using the Holy Spirit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
What you say is far from "all wrong", there's a lot of truth in it. But in my opinion it's your own pride that causes you to go off the rails. You simply will not submit your intellect and will to the earthly Authority established by Christ. You know better than the prophets of God. Even hypothetically if the prophets were wrong, there is more virtue in your humble submission to them due to their legitimate authority than your rejection of them based on your alleged superior knowledge. It's more important to be humble than it is to be right.
The problem I have with your views is not the views themselves necessarily. It's the fact that they are completely novel with no grounding in any tradition whatsoever. They lack authoritative backing.
The bold says you have placed your faith in men, NOT Jesus or God. You ignore or reject knowing Jesus and God as Jesus revealed and demonstrated unambiguously on the Cross. That is NOT how you are "born of God" and achieve eternal life. Knowing God and Jesus IS eternal life, NOT following the dictates of men, period! You are delegating your responsibility to other men to know God and Jesus and hope your faith in them will somehow suffice. Bad plan, Mike. You need to know God and Jesus yourself because THAT is eternal life. There is no magic or supernatural shortcut from your humble submission to men.
John 17:3 (King James Version) 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1 John 4:7 (King James Version) 7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
The bold says you have placed your faith in men, NOT Jesus or God. You ignore or reject knowing Jesus and God as Jesus revealed and demonstrated unambiguously on the Cross. That is NOT how you are "born of God" and achieve eternal life. Knowing God and Jesus IS eternal life, NOT following the dictates of men, period! You are delegating your responsibility to other men to know God and Jesus and hope your faith in them will somehow suffice. Bad plan, Mike. You need to know God and Jesus yourself because THAT is eternal life. There is no magic or supernatural shortcut from your humble submission to men.
You misunderstand. It's precisely because of my faith in Jesus that I can submit to the authority that He Himself established. Jesus said to His Apostles, "he who hears you hears Me" (Luke 10:16).
I wasn't personally at Calvary when Christ was crucified, so I don't know Jesus that way. The way I know Jesus is through His re-presentation of His act at Calvary in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I know Him in the "breaking of the bread", just like the disciples on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:35). I know Jesus personally because not only do I dialogue with Him regularly, but I literally consume His very Flesh and Blood. He comes to me at every Mass and abides with me.
My faith is not in men. My faith is in God. However, that does not preclude my placing my trust in the men appointed by God to be my spiritual fathers. I'm not delegating anything spiritually, as delegation necessitates the possessing of authority. I possess no spiritual authority, except over my own immediate family.
Nope. But how would we know? What makes any one more right than another?
Exactly. The Ethiopian eunuch in Acts recognized this very problem. As he was reading the Scriptures, the Apostle Phillip asked him if he understood what he was reading. He answered, "How can I, unless someone guides me?”
What if Jesus had appointed men to lead a society that could authoritatively teach in His Name and tell us what the Scriptures truly mean?
You misunderstand. It's precisely because of my faith in Jesus that I can submit to the authority that He Himself established. Jesus said to His Apostles, "he who hears you hears Me" (Luke 10:16).
I wasn't personally at Calvary when Christ was crucified, so I don't know Jesus that way. The way I know Jesus is through His re-presentation of His act at Calvary in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I know Him in the "breaking of the bread", just like the disciples on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:35). I know Jesus personally because not only do I dialogue with Him regularly, but I literally consume His very Flesh and Blood. He comes to me at every Mass and abides with me.
My faith is not in men. My faith is in God. However, that does not preclude my placing my trust in the men appointed by God to be my spiritual fathers. I'm not delegating anything spiritually, as delegation necessitates the possessing of authority. I possess no spiritual authority, except over my own immediate family.
And that's an example of what happens when we choose to believe the words of men instead of the words of God. You and Mystic get into a shouting match over who is right. He blathers about barbaric teachings, you say the Pope and the magisterium are right.
Instead, it's amazing what happens when we actually follow the Words of God as laid out in Scripture.
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