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I don't mean to argue with you but I want to point out that nowhere in any of those passages, or in the entire bible for that matter, does the bible say ONLY Scripture. It says ALL Scripture. Big difference. Huge difference.
Oh what a difference one word makes. And the second verse, 2 Peter 1:3 isn't even talking about Scripture only - it doesn't even mention Scripture.
It’s ok to argue here. This is a debate forum.
I agree with you that nowhere in God’s word does it say the words “only Scripture.”
But can you tell me why Peter, through the Holy Spirit, would say that God has given us ALL things that pertain to life and godliness?
(2 Peter 1:2-3)
“Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, …”
And why would Paul, through divine inspiration tell Timothy that the Scriptures are able to make the man of God complete?
2 Timothy 3:16-17)
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
She said the ENTIRE bible didn't exist at the time of Revelation. She didn't say anything about the Old Testament only not existing. I believe she was talking about the canon of the bible.
Doesn’t the entire Bible include to Old Testament?
I agree with you that nowhere in God’s word does it say the words “only Scripture.”
But can you tell me why Peter, through the Holy Spirit, would say that God has given us ALL things that pertain to life and godliness?
(2 Peter 1:2-3)
“Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, …”
And why would Paul, through divine inspiration tell Timothy that the Scriptures are able to make the man of God complete?
2 Timothy 3:16-17)
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Your thoughts?
'All things' would include 'traditions', which scripture tells us to 'hold fast' to...
"Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." 2 Thes 2:15
and 'scriptures are able to make the man of God complete... for every good work' because scripture teaches us that 'the church is the pillar and foundation of truth' -
"...the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. 1Tim 3:15
Notice the verse DOESN'T say that the 'bible' is the pillar and foundation of truth.
Good grief. Your claim, from post 169 was ''Educated biblical scholars admit there is no way of knowing what the original manuscripts of each book of the NT was like to recognize which texts we have today are correct or in error.'' And that claim is wrong as I have shown by quoting the scholars. They do not admit that. Quite the opposite.
My point was and remains that the scholars admit they don’t have original manuscripts to look at, and admit that they are reconstructing what they BELIEVE the original manuscripts said through educated guesswork of which of the manuscripts to go by . That remains true , unless you can show they have the originals, which we know , by their own admission, they don’t . Being 98% sure isn’t knowing 100% sure you have reconstructed them exactly as the originals existed . Show me scholars that say they have 100% reconstructed the Bible to exactly what each individual manuscript said . With links to scholarly sites, not Answers in Genesis or some such site . I will wait .
To give a working example of what I mean, lets take the ending of Mark. Most scholars agree that the verses about snakes and poison are not in the originals. So why do they remain in the Bible ? Because they appear in a lot of manuscripts, and scholars dont have the originals to refer back to , to know for 100% sure they dont belong. Even though the majority of scholars agree they dont. And to bring this into the sola scriptura debate that was the OP , you now have sects that believe in handling snakes , because their reading of the Bible and relying on sola scriptura told them this in their view, and most every biblical scholar will tell you those verses are not authentic.
I never said that the Bible was wildly off. I said we cant KNOW what was in the originals ,only try to make educated attempts to reconstruct the originals, because we dont have the originals, and that scholars admitted we dont have them and they have to try and reconstruct them to their best ability. Which may be 98%. But its not 100%. And we having sects today we know came about through verses that scholars think shouldnt be in the Bible. If there are any other variations that the scholars got wrong but dont realize they got wrong, we would not know about them , because , once again, we just dont have the originals. We dont even have 100% intact copies. We have thousands of fragments of copies that vary wildly from each other by the scholars own admission. They simply claim to have recreated it properly, and you have no choice but to take them at their word.
Last edited by NatesDude; 10-30-2021 at 09:07 AM..
We are indeed taking the thread in a different direction, so I will just say this. We don't have the original manuscripts. Period. So we rely on fallible humans , some with religious bias, to try and figure out what the originals probably said by reading multiple forms of texts (Masoretic,Septuagint,Byzantine,Western, Alexandrian) of admittedly altered copies to try and figure it out. If people are happy with that approach, more power to them. I am not trying to argue anyones beliefs, only the facts about the Bible.
My point was that we don't have the originals, and also that many literalists have no idea about all of this, and think the Bible was handed to the church printed and bound, with all the books in the current order, and in King James English. Its not nearly that neat and simple.
You have summarized the situation perfectly. Although it was not my purpose, when I started this thread, to discuss the inerrancy of scripture, clearly if it does potentially contain errors or if it is an incomplete record of God's interactions with humanity, then it should not be our sole means of arriving at truth and spiritual wisdom. But even that doesn't address the question I posed in the OP. I asked if the idea that the Bible should be the sole source of authority for Christian faith and practice is taught in the Bible. To this point, no one who believes it is has been able to provide Biblical support for that idea.
But can you tell me why Peter, through the Holy Spirit, would say that God has given us ALL things that pertain to life and godliness?
Katie, the fact that God gave "us all things that pertain to life and godliness" does not mean that ALL things were preserved, transcribed and translated correctly. That was my point in starting this thread, and yet you have merely side-stepped the issue when people have pointed out to you that ALL things were NOT preserved, transcribed and translated correctly. You come back with platitudes that don't even address our arguments.
The Scriptures are God-breathed. I trust in them for that reason. I trust in the God-breathed words for my salvation, and for knowing how to live a life pleasing to God. No other writings of men are God-breathed.
How can you possibly know this??? By what logic would God stop inspiring us at such a primitive and ignorant stage of our evolution???? Why would Jesus promise the Comforter would come in His name to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts?"
I was a member of this forum years ago. I did not remember my user name or password, so I registered with the user name MissKate12. I was not aware that this was against the rules until admin told me someone had contacted them about it.
Sorry, it was just that your comments with Katzpur about anger and vindictiveness seemed personal and harking back to the past, and that is between you 2
If you want to join the 2 account together let the mods know, I did the same thing a couple of years ago when I started posting again after a long absence from the forum
Sorry, it was just that your comments with Katzpur about anger and vindictiveness seemed personal and harking back to the past, and that is between you 2
If you want to join the 2 account together let the mods know, I did the same thing a couple of years ago when I started posting again after a long absence from the forum
It was taken care of the day I learned that “someone” here reported it. The mods will merge both user names. MissKatie12 will continue to be my user name.
Last edited by MissKate12; 10-30-2021 at 11:35 AM..
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