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I go by the scripture and reject teachings that go against it. It's interesting and telling to me that when tempted by Satan in the desert, Jesus responded several times "It is written" and then quoted scripture. As you'll see in the bolded blue font, even Satan referred to scripture. When we deviate from scripture, which we know to be the inspired word of God, we then are putting our faith into men that very well may NOT be guided by the Holy Spirit. I certainly don't trust the Catholic Church based on their sordid history and false teachings.
Matthew 4:1-11
New International Version
Jesus Is Tested in the Wilderness
4 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted[a] by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’[b]”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’[c]”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’[d]”
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
Last edited by mensaguy; 01-24-2023 at 08:25 AM..
Reason: Don't use red text. Read the forum rules.
If only that were true, Mike, our disagreements would disappear, but it is NOT true. You do not know what the Holy Spirit IS. It is not some supernatural person. It is a state of mind that reflects the "character" of its Spirit. In the case of God, the Holy Spirit is the character of God's consciousness - The "mind of God." Our ONLY source of its "character" is the "mind of Christ." I put the explanation in my blog.
Instead of Sola Scriptura, we should all be guided by Solus Spiritus Sanctus as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross. If your Catholic Church and it leaders were actually guided by the Holy Spirit (in the states of mind associated with the Holy Spirit) they would not believe or teach the primitive and barbaric nonsense that they do and have done over the millennia!
To review,
Philippians 2:5-30 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
When we are in the states of mind associated with the "mind of Christ" we are guided by His Holy Spirit and cannot do anything wrong. We can only do wrong in other states of mind. We are to read the scriptures using the "mind of Christ" using His agape love and forgiveness, NOT wrath to see what Jesus (and the prophets) actually were trying to tell us, NOT what our primitive ancestors THOUGHT they were trying to tell us using their primitive beliefs about their wrathful War God. That is how you study to show yourself approved using the Holy Spirit.
What you say is far from "all wrong", there's a lot of truth in it. But in my opinion it's your own pride that causes you to go off the rails. You simply will not submit your intellect and will to the earthly Authority established by Christ. You know better than the prophets of God. Even hypothetically if the prophets were wrong, there is more virtue in your humble submission to them due to their legitimate authority than your rejection of them based on your alleged superior knowledge. It's more important to be humble than it is to be right.
The problem I have with your views is not the views themselves necessarily. It's the fact that they are completely novel with no grounding in any tradition whatsoever. They lack authoritative backing.
I meant on a more fundamental level. How do you know what's scripture and what isn't?
Because I'm a human and I've used the Book, so have people for thousands of years. The basic premises apply universally so it contains sacred truth, regardless of belief.
When the current Canon of scripture was closed, I don't imagine that anyone thought these books we have here are all there is. That there is nothing else worthy of consideration.
Sola Scriptura does not say that instruction, inspiration, correction, reproof etc...
can ONLY be found in the canon of scripture.
It is however a collection of writings that we all seem to agree are authoritative.
Right. The Episcopal church's Articles of Faith puts it this way:
Quote:
Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation.
This does not mean that you must LIMIT yourself to the Bible, just that Scripture contains all you need. For some, that is sufficient. Others dive deeper.
I meant on a more fundamental level. How do you know what's scripture and what isn't?
Well seeing that it was a group of men who decided what was in and what was out...we really don't know.
The "list" happened long after Jesus and the Apostles died...around 250 AD give or take.
There seemed to have been infighting among them with "heresy" thrown out to silence them.
Some other books were deemed heresy and men went to great lengths to obliterate them via banning, burning destroying and threats of punishment if they were caught with the books/scrolls.
Maybe that's why so many of the older scrolls got hidden in the caves.
So I have come to assume those with power made the lists and maybe the threat of "heresy" was enough to silence anyone who questioned them.
I really don't know for sure but that is the gist of what I got from diving into history (secular).
Last edited by TMSRetired; 01-24-2023 at 08:58 AM..
We make such complex matters... complicated. Leave that for Theologians.
You know Jesus and Einstein said the same thing in different ways.... paraphrasing
J) It really boiling down to two things, love God and your neighbor.
E)Make something as simple as possible but no simpler.
J) All the worlds treasure are in wisdom and knowledge
E) Imagination is more important then knowledge, for imagination embraces the whole world
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