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Not only are there different texts like the Masoretic and Septuagint that differ on the same verses, there are multiple other texts that that differ as well, the main two being the Western and the Alexandrian versions.
Educated biblical scholars admit there is no way of knowing what the original manuscripts of each book of the NT was like to recognize which texts we have today are correct or in error.
I have found very few evangelical and fundamentalist literalists that know the Bible is based on various types of manuscripts that no one knows for sure which ones are the correct ones. They seem to believe the original manuscripts have made it down to the modern day completely intact and unaltered.
The bolded is simply not true. New Testament textual critics recognize that the New Testament as we have it today is some 99 percent faithful to the original Greek texts. They know this because the original text can be found among the many thousands of extant NT texts with all their variants. The variants are identified and the original text mostly recovered. I've posted on this before.
Not only are there different texts like the Masoretic and Septuagint that differ on the same verses, there are multiple other texts that that differ as well, the main two being the Western and the Alexandrian versions.
Educated biblical scholars admit there is no way of knowing what the original manuscripts of each book of the NT was like to recognize which texts we have today are correct or in error.
I have found very few evangelical and fundamentalist literalists that know the Bible is based on various types of manuscripts that no one knows for sure which ones are the correct ones. They seem to believe the original manuscripts have made it down to the modern-day completely intact and unaltered.
Fundamentalists are unconcerned with biblical scholarship, or the actual authorship or origins of the books in the Bible. It has been made a magical book that must be believed to have the stated authors and the traits of God -- an idol that is inerrant, infallible, and protected from any corruption. They think if that cannot be assumed, their belief in God and Jesus must be void. There is no reasoning with that kind of magical thinking, period.
Not only are there different texts like the Masoretic and Septuagint that differ on the same verses, there are multiple other texts that that differ as well, the main two being the Western and the Alexandrian versions.
Educated biblical scholars admit there is no way of knowing what the original manuscripts of each book of the NT was like to recognize which texts we have today are correct or in error.
I have found very few evangelical and fundamentalist literalists that know the Bible is based on various types of manuscripts that no one knows for sure which ones are the correct ones. They seem to believe the original manuscripts have made it down to the modern day completely intact and unaltered.
Yep, we are told that ultimately it doesn’t matter about the letter being exact
Ministers of the New Covenant
2Co 3:1**Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2Co 3:2**Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3**Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4**And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5**Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6**Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7**But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8**How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
Not that we are to do away with the letter ..... we are to understand the meaning contained within
I don't know what would make you think I was angry, and your disagreeing with me is not a source of frustration for me in the slightest. Your simplistic way of thinking is mind-boggling, but if it works for you, don't let me discourage you. I have given you historical facts (earlier on in this thread, you just ignored the specifics I mentioned) which you just don't seem to want to think about.
Hmmm. Really? Does katie my girl ring a bell? Maybe anger wasn’t the right word. Vindictive might be more fitting.
Hmmm. Really? Does katie my girl ring a bell? Maybe anger wasn’t the right word. Vindictive might be more fitting.
I detect no anger in Katz, just frustration that you lack so much knowledge about the origin of the various books included in today's Bible compared to the ones that were in earlier versions. Your faith in God does not seem to rely on such knowledge so it is probably best if you do not research the history of the compilation of what has become the Bible. It wouldn't matter anyway as long as you seek righteousness, love God and each other every day, and repent when you fail.
Part of the gospel message is about letting bygones be bygone and not harbouring resentment that influences our actions and reactions in the now and that has an effect on the future ....it’s about breaking the cycle
Eph 4:30**And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31**Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32**And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
The bolded is simply not true. New Testament textual critics recognize that the New Testament as we have it today is some 99 percent faithful to the original Greek texts. They know this because the original text can be found among the many thousands of extant NT texts with all their variants. The variants are identified and the original text mostly recovered. I've posted on this before.
Perhaps I worded it wrong. Let me try again. We have NO original manuscripts of the NT books. None. We have thousands of "manuscripts" of copies of the originals, some of which are just paper about the size of your credit card, some "manuscripts" contain 3 words, while some are larger, and some quite lengthy, many which vary among them due to admitted changes by textual scholars. NONE of these pieces of paper are the original manuscripts of the writers.
The below is from Bruce Metzger on the differences in the Western and Alexandrian texts of the Acts of the Apostles
Secondly, there are variants of another kind, peculiar to the Western text of Acts. These include many additions, long and short, of a substantive nature that reveal the hand of a reviser. Working upon a copy of the "Western" text in the first sense, the reviser, who was obviously a meticulous and well-informed scholar, eliminated seams and gaps and added historical, biographical, and geographical details. Apparently the reviser did his work at an early date, before the text of Acts had come to be generally regarded as a sacred text that must be preserved inviolate.
Here is more of what I refer to. This isn't Metzger but from a theology lecturer in Europe,just to be clear. The bolded question is by the writer, not me.
Inevitably, textual changes and errors crept into the tradition: some were corrected, others perpetuated, with the result that scholars, editors, and translators are faced with thousands of textual variants. For example, one manuscript of 1Cor 2:1 speaks of the ”mystery” of God, whereas another refers to the ”testimony” of God, with the root word in Greek being remarkably similar (the difference between the two residing in three letters). Which one is correct?
Here is a commentary on the Byzantine text that comprises the vast majority of the "manuscripts". Note the bolded, especially the words "harmonize the differences". In other words, alter the manuscripts to erase differences.
Byzantine Text
The name given to the form of text of the Greek NT to which the great majority of MSS dating from the Byzantine period and since bear witness. It underlies the “Textus Receptus” and therefore also the earlier English versions of the Bible. It is now thought to be due to a (perhaps lengthy) process of revision by which a generally standard text form arose. It is more closely related to the Syrian family of MSS than to any of the other families. This is marked by a tendency to conflate the shorter readings of earlier MSS, to harmonize differences, and to provide a smoother literary style. Because of this secondary character, the text is a much less reliable witness to the original text of the NT than are some of the other text families.
So, when trying to decide what the originals might have said, scholars have to decide which texts they think is closer to the original. How to do this when you dont have the originals? They make arbitrary choices. Some decide that the older manuscripts would be closer to the originals. Others believe the scripts with the largest number of surviving manuscripts would be more the original. Most modern Bibles use the Alexandrian text. However, about 95% of the manuscripts are in the Byzantine text, which critics admit "took liberties" with the translations. On occasion entire sentences were left out.
But the bottom line is, no matter what scholars think about the accuracy, we dont have the originals to know.
Last edited by NatesDude; 10-29-2021 at 07:51 PM..
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