Transubstantiation??? (punishment, believer, convert, Episcopal)

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by CCCyou

The writers of the NT clearly used/quoted the Septuagint in many passages - and since 'ALL scripture is God-Breathed' then clearly both the Hebrew AND the Greek Septuagint must be treated as such and not 'discarded' as Luther and HIS followers did/do.

OK? and?

Are you trying to suggest the apocrypha was considered Scripture in the Septuagint?

[EscAlaMike]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Are you trying to suggest the apocrypha was considered Scripture in the Septuagint?

That depends. "Considered" by whom?

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by EscAlaMike

That depends. "Considered" by whom?

The church never considered it Scripture. The Jews didn't consider it Scripture. It was added by Trent.

[CCCyou]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

OK? and?

well, which is it? you first replied 'Nope'; now you waffle and quasi agree?
Was Jesus born of a virgin or a 'young woman' ?
Do 'All the angels of God worship Him (the Son)' or not?

Does BF believe the writers of the NT quoted the Septuagint or not?

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Are you trying to suggest the apocrypha was considered Scripture in the Septuagint?

Would it matter to you if it was?

[EscAlaMike]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

The church never considered it Scripture. The Jews didn't consider it Scripture. It was added by Trent.

What do you make of the Councils of Carthage, particularly the Synod of 397?

Clearly someone in the church considered it Scripture.

Do you dismiss the Council as heretical or invalid?

Why is what the Jews considered Scripture relevant to Christianity? The Jews didn't consider Christ to be the Messiah, either.

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by CCCyou

well, which is it? you first replied 'Nope'; now you waffle and quasi agree?

Jude also quoted from a couple of non-canonical books. Doesn't mean they were inspired.

Was Jesus born of a virgin or a 'young woman' ?

A young woman who was a virgin. The implication is clearly that a young woman would be a virgin.

Do 'All the angels of God worship Him (the Son)' or not?

Yes.

Does BF believe the writers of the NT quoted the Septuagint or not?

Would it matter to you if it was?

Yes. They likely did. So what?

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by EscAlaMike

What do you make of the Councils of Carthage, particularly the Synod of 397?

Clearly someone in the church considered it Scripture.

Do you dismiss the Council as heretical or invalid?

Why is what the Jews considered Scripture relevant to Christianity? The Jews didn't consider Christ to be the Messiah, either.

I honestly don't know that much about Carthage, so I won't begin to try to blow smoke in your direction. But I do know that while the apocrypha was included in the Septuagint, it was organized in a way that they put them in a different section. They didn't consider them to be part of the Scriptures. And that's important because they are part of the pre-Christ writings.

[EscAlaMike]

Since today, June 16th, 2022 is the Feast of Corpus Christi, ("Corpus Christi" being Latin for "Body of Christ"), I thought it would be fitting to share this brief meditation from Fr. Leonard Goffine that I came across this morning:

Why is this day called Corpus Christi? Because on this day the Catholic Church solemnly celebrates the institution of the Holy Sacrament of the Altar. The name, which is Latin, signifies the body of Christ. Why is this feast not celebrated on Maundy Thursday? Because on Maundy Thursday, the day of the institution of this sacrament, the Church is occupied with the passion and death of Christ, and has no thought of joy, but gives herself up to grief.

For what purpose was this feast instituted, and why are processions so solemnly held on this day?

1. To declare, openly, to the faithful the real and substantial presence of Jesus in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar.

2. In order to manifest, in the sight of heaven and earth, honor and adoration for Him before Whom every knee shall bow.

3. To give public thanks for the institution of this holy sacrament, and for all the graces thereby conferred upon the faithful.

4. To repair, in some measure, by solemn adoration, the wrongs done to Christ, in this sacrament.

5. To bring down God's blessing upon the land and upon the people.

6. To show that Jesus, as true God, dwells not only in temples built by hands, but that He has heaven for His throne, the earth for His footstool, and the whole world for His temple.

How is Jesus present in the Most Holy Sacrament? He is present, truly, really, and substantially, in His divinity and humanity, in flesh and blood, in body and soul, under the appearances of bread and wine.

[1689dave]

tran·sub·stan·ti·a·tion

/ˌtran(t)səbˌstan(t)SHēˈāSH(ə)n/

Learn to pronounce

noun CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY

(especially in the Roman Catholic Church) the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining.

Which denies Jesus came in the flesh = a doctrine of the Antichrist according to John. “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” 2 John 7 (KJV 1900)

That is, He did not come as a loaf of bread and a bottle of wine.

[CCCyou]

Originally Posted by 1689dave

He did not come as a loaf of bread and a bottle of wine.

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven.
If any man eat of this bread,
he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh,
for the life of the world." John 6:51