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peter as first pope founded the Catholic church.
and paul started Crstianity
Peter led the church. Jesus did not declare him as a "pope". The Catholic church made up that term. The Catholic church was not founded by anyone. A religious leader came up with the idea to call the church "Catholic" and then people started creating this idea that "oh yea, Jesus founded the Catholic church" which is false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Catholic church was founded 200 years before Peter was ever born.
Not sure what to say about that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
God’s word supersedes history, church or otherwise! Which do you trust more? The word of God or the history written by fallible men?
The word of God. But again and here's an example, if I went to a football game last week and team blue won. It is a historical fact that last week, team blue won a game. Events that happen in life are real. The way they are documented might create opportunities for history to be tampered with. Even God's word is tampered with. People take God's word, flip the words around, and use it to their advantage.
Peter led the church. Jesus did not declare him as a "pope". The Catholic church made up that term. The Catholic church was not founded by anyone. A religious leader came up with the idea to call the church "Catholic" and then people started creating this idea that "oh yea, Jesus founded the Catholic church" which is false.
Not sure what to say about that...
The word of God. But again and here's an example, if I went to a football game last week and team blue won. It is a historical fact that last week, team blue won a game. Events that happen in life are real. The way they are documented might create opportunities for history to be tampered with. Even God's word is tampered with. People take God's word, flip the words around, and use it to their advantage.
I’m happy to know you trust God’s word above church history. I know Catholics will say that, but when it comes right down to it, the treat church history as inspired by the Holy Spirit. It’s not!!!
God promised to preserve His word, therefore, the extant Hebrew and Greek manuscripts have not been tampered with.
I agree, however, that people do twist the word of God to make it say what they want it to say. Even so-called Bible translators show bias. This is why I use an Interlinear with the English and Greek side by side along with several lexicons.
I also know that history is often slanted with bias, and governments have been known to revise it to fit their agendas. They do it through schools and textbooks.
Peter led the church. Jesus did not declare him as a "pope". The Catholic church made up that term. The Catholic church was not founded by anyone. A religious leader came up with the idea to call the church "Catholic" and then people started creating this idea that "oh yea, Jesus founded the Catholic church" which is false.
So right you are. Peter was indeed a leader in the Lord’s church, but so was Paul and James. All of the Apostles were leaders. Jesus never named Peter as chief of the Apostles. In fact, he said the opposite (Luke 22:24-30). The Catholic Church has convinced her followers that their church is the original true church. We know from Scripture the church was established in Jerusalem, and from there, it grew. Catholicism is never mentioned. The job of the elders was to make sure it was the doctrine of Jesus & His Apostles that was being taught. As prophesied, there was a falling away from the beginning. The Catholic Church grew out of that departure. It continues to move further and further away from the truth.
The sad thing is that they abandoned Peter's teachings and went their own way.
The really sad thing is that you ALL seem to have abandoned Jesus' teachings and example in favor of our primitive ancestors' ignorant beliefs about God and interpretations of Him!
I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by "history".
Do you mean the events of the past as they happened; or do you mean simply man's account of the events of the past?
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Originally Posted by MissKate12
Church history.
Which do you trust more! The word of God or church history?
I'm afraid this doesn't clarify, as the same problem remains. Do you mean the events of the past pertaining to the Church as they happened; or do you mean simply man's account of the events of the past?
The really sad thing is that you ALL seem to have abandoned Jesus' teachings and example in favor of our primitive ancestors' ignorant beliefs about God and interpretations of Him!
Peter led the church. Jesus did not declare him as a "pope". The Catholic church made up that term.
"Pope" is not an official title, but rather a nickname for the Bishop of Rome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
The Catholic church was not founded by anyone. A religious leader came up with the idea to call the church "Catholic" and then people started creating this idea that "oh yea, Jesus founded the Catholic church" which is false.
The assertion is that Jesus founded a church. This church was intended to have structure (it was led by Jesus' disciples). It had leaders (bishops, presbyters) who served in an official capacity, hence it was a visible institution. Paul wrote letters to the various churches.
Christ also promised that the church would exist in perpetuity (the gates of Hades will not prevail against it).
The question is: Does this institution still exist, and where can it be found?
To reduce the church to some abstract, invisible concept with no formal structure or objective bounds for membership is to make Christ's declarations and promises virtually meaningless.
The really sad thing is that you ALL seem to have abandoned Jesus' teachings and example in favor of our primitive ancestors' ignorant beliefs about God and interpretations of Him!
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Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
Can you be specific? Which of Peter's teachings has the Catholic Church abandoned?
This is part of the problem and also the process that has happened with ‘the church’ over the past 2000 years
Which incidentally with the Lord is as 2 Days
It is about the division and separation that was predicted in the 1st century and we now look back (hindsight) over actual history that has happened in those 2000 years/2 Days
Luk 12:49**I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Luk 12:50**But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Luk 12:51**Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52**For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53**The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Psa 90:1**A Prayer of Moses the man of God. Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
Psa 90:2**Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Psa 90:3**Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
Psa 90:4**For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Psa 90:5**Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.
Last edited by Meerkat2; 12-23-2022 at 02:32 PM..
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