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1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
These threads about the Elect, I cant never figure out whether the person is completely dishonest or if its just ignorance or brain washing.
The Elect, the chosen, they are Israel.
By definition, if you are involved in paganism in any way, you cannot be the Elect, the elect cannot involve themselves with the holy days of Baal like Christmas and Easter.
Elijah said he was the only one in the Northern kingdom who wouldnt involve himself in pagan holy days.
The ten tribes accepted Easter and the winter solstice, and God ended them for that very reason.
God ended the northern of Israel accept for a 7000 Elect to which Paul was a member of.
Paul then explains his own adoption into Judah and he teaches that Gentiles could also be adopted to become Jews as he had become one if they would accept the same worship system as Jews.
Paul says," Even us, not of the Jews only."
Paul was a non Jewish Israeli who would not involve himself.in the holy days of Baal that ended the Northern kingdom.
By definition, a Gentile cannot join the elect unless he rejects pagan holy days that ended Israel.
Do you reject all paganism to accept the Sabbaths and appointed feasts of Messiah?
Messiah didnt come teaching the ways of Baal that Christians keep.
The elect love and practice the worship system of God, and because they accept the same holy days Messiah kept, they are added to the elect.
Isaiah 56
Salvation for All Nations
1Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 11-22-2021 at 03:29 PM..
Ephesians 1:4 - He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.
I can be happy about being chosen, while at the same time wishing others would be chosen. I don't think anyone is excited about people not being chosen. We just believe strongly in His Word.
In the end - trust God with everything and leave the circumstances to Him.
If I want others to be chosen, then it would seem to be wise to make an effort to repeatedly share the gospel when them with the opportunities arise - since belief in the gospel is the way into God's kingdom. And pray for their salvation as well. Don't just sit there and be salty because you think someone hasn't been chosen.
Regarding the blue^, I would think that sharing or not sharing the gospel would have no impact on another's salvation if they are predestined and 'non' elect...no?
I was watching a debate with John MacArthur and some others and was introduced to this concept of the elect. It was actually my first time hearing that God does not call everyone to be saved thus meaning that people are predestined to eternal damnation. I had vaguely heard about predestination in listening to John Piper and hearing that this is an ideal held by many Calvinists (please do step in and correct me as appropriate).
In just hearing about this concept (and I hate to admit this but) I am finding it immensely depressing.
Mark 13:20 (NIV) -
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them."
Is this concept widely held outside of Calvinism?
If you have passages of scripture to share either for or against predestination, please feel free to share.
What are your thoughts on the elect and regarding predestination?
The doctrine of predestination seems unassailable when you think about it in classical terms. It's like the scientific principle of determinism, where the present state of affairs is explained as the inevitable effect of past states of affairs - - back to the dawn of time. The difference is, in predestination it all plays out first in the mind of omniscient God, whose gaze encompasses all history at once, beginning to end.
Some have suggested that quantum mechanics demolishes predestination. Tiny sub-atomic events like, say, the exact trajectory of a certain electron, happen randomly. There are some things the electron can't and won't do. And some things that the electron might do are more probable that others. But of all the things the electron might do, what it ultimately does do is determined by nothing but random chance. Not even God can tell you which way the electron will go, and if He can't tell you that, then He can't predict future historical events in the larger world either, because sub-atomic events effect the course of classical events. If this is true, so much for predestination and God's omniscience.
If the course of future history is random and unknown to God, I could no longer hold to Anselm's definition of God as the greatest conceivable being, because if God isn't omniscient, He isn't the greatest conceivable being.
It is my feeling that quantum mechanics is incomplete - - that there are undiscovered factors that explain why an electron does this instead of that. IMO, God selects from among the quantum possibilities, not random chance. As Einstein put it, "God does not play dice with the universe."
I can't avoid predestination while holding to my understanding of who God is.
Last edited by Arizona Humphrey; 11-22-2021 at 03:26 PM..
Reason: For Brevity
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
How many of you read this scripture thinking Paul is speaking of Jews?
This scripture has nothing to do with Jews, it is speaking of Israel, not Judah.
Predestination is a false teaching Except for Lord Jesus Christ who was called from the beginning ........ Bible says in Romans 10:13, Acts 2:21, Joel 2:32 .....`` Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved ``.............. See Jesus is worthy to save them all and has the power to take sin out of the most wicked people of the earth which He does ........ The elect are all the righteous people of Christ
Regarding the blue^, I would think that sharing or not sharing the gospel would have no impact on another's salvation if they are predestined and 'non' elect...no?
Two things...
1- God has given believers all sorts of spiritual gifts - and those gifts should led to the proclamation of the gospel to others - whether it's directly or indirectly. Because is it through people believing the gospel that salvation occurs.
2- We don't know who are elect, and who are not God's elect. Only God knows. So we do our part by sharing the gospel, and God handles sending His Holy Spirit to whom He desires - through faith.
I was watching a debate with John MacArthur and some others and was introduced to this concept of the elect. It was actually my first time hearing that God does not call everyone to be saved thus meaning that people are predestined to eternal damnation. I had vaguely heard about predestination in listening to John Piper and hearing that this is an ideal held by many Calvinists (please do step in and correct me as appropriate).
In just hearing about this concept (and I hate to admit this but) I am finding it immensely depressing.
Mark 13:20 (NIV) -
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them."
Is this concept widely held outside of Calvinism?
If you have passages of scripture to share either for or against predestination, please feel free to share.
What are your thoughts on the elect and regarding predestination?
Calvinism is false teaching. Run as far away and as fast as you can from it.
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You seem like you can handle yourself just fine.
