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I was watching a debate with John MacArthur and some others and was introduced to this concept of the elect. It was actually my first time hearing that God does not call everyone to be saved thus meaning that people are predestined to eternal damnation. I had vaguely heard about predestination in listening to John Piper and hearing that this is an ideal held by many Calvinists (please do step in and correct me as appropriate).
In just hearing about this concept (and I hate to admit this but) I am finding it immensely depressing.
Mark 13:20 (NIV) -
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them."
Is this concept widely held outside of Calvinism?
If you have passages of scripture to share either for or against predestination, please feel free to share.
What are your thoughts on the elect and regarding predestination?
You've got some regulars on here who are happy as clams to be part of the elect and equally excited that they won the God Lottery and others didn't. Although they would deny it, the excitement at the thought of others tossed in a firy lake comes through loud and clear.
I was raised in a Calvinist church, but reject that way of thinking.
I'm not so sure based on our back and forth in a different thread from last month. You seem like you can handle yourself just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southkakkatlantan
I was watching a debate with John MacArthur and some others and was introduced to this concept of the elect. It was actually my first time hearing that God does not call everyone to be saved thus meaning that people are predestined to eternal damnation. I had vaguely heard about predestination in listening to John Piper and hearing that this is an ideal held by many Calvinists (please do step in and correct me as appropriate).
In just hearing about this concept (and I hate to admit this but) I am finding it immensely depressing.
Mark 13:20 (NIV) -
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them."
Is this concept widely held outside of Calvinism?
If you have passages of scripture to share either for or against predestination, please feel free to share.
What are your thoughts on the elect and regarding predestination?
I can see where it would be depressing. But it can be uplifting that you where specifically chosen by the God of the universe to be one with Him.
Much of it doesn't make sense to us why He chooses some, but not everyone - but we are to have faith in Him and trust Him regardless of how He governs the affairs on the earth.
Ephesians 1:4 - He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
You've got some regulars on here who are happy as clams to be part of the elect and equally excited that they won the God Lottery and others didn't. Although they would deny it, the excitement at the thought of others tossed in a firy lake comes through loud and clear.
I was raised in a Calvinist church, but reject that way of thinking.
I can be happy about being chosen, while at the same time wishing others would be chosen. I don't think anyone is excited about people not being chosen. We just believe strongly in His Word.
In the end - trust God with everything and leave the circumstances to Him.
If I want others to be chosen, then it would seem to be wise to make an effort to repeatedly share the gospel when them with the opportunities arise - since belief in the gospel is the way into God's kingdom. And pray for their salvation as well. Don't just sit there and be salty because you think someone hasn't been chosen.
It's pretty simple;
one can choose to believe/follow Calvin and that kind, or Christ.
For Jesus stated very clearly "For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” John (6:40)
When relying on scripture alone, there's lotsa confusing verses in it - always turn to Christ to hear what He has to say about it!
I was watching a debate with John MacArthur and some others and was introduced to this concept of the elect. It was actually my first time hearing that God does not call everyone to be saved thus meaning that people are predestined to eternal damnation. I had vaguely heard about predestination in listening to John Piper and hearing that this is an ideal held by many Calvinists (please do step in and correct me as appropriate).
In just hearing about this concept (and I hate to admit this but) I am finding it immensely depressing.
Mark 13:20 (NIV) -
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them."
Is this concept widely held outside of Calvinism?
If you have passages of scripture to share either for or against predestination, please feel free to share.
What are your thoughts on the elect and regarding predestination?
I see a layering in Scripture
The Lord cutting short the “days” is about not letting things get so bad that we collectively destroy ourselves
The elect/chosen are not individual Christians as such, it has to do with the church/assembly/congregation that are to be faithful in their own calling, depending on their part in the greater scheme of things
In Christianity there has been hierarchy set up by design with a head over a body, and heads over bodies
Where we are now in the greater scheme is in the end of the latter days where there has been a fulfilling of the Scriptures in a very broad, global way and we see the effects of “humanity” “Adam” in all areas physically, societally, intellectually,
Western civilisation has had both good and bad effects and all of the things going on now are the consequences of our collective efforts - the reaping what we have sown
Bear One Another's Burdens
Gal 6:1**Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Gal 6:2**Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3**For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Gal 6:4**But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Gal 6:5**For every man shall bear his own burden.
Gal 6:6**Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7**Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8**For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9**And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10**As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
I believe the basic problem we have is in understanding, interpretation, translation - not keeping things in their proper context, and our natural selfishness
I was watching a debate with John MacArthur and some others and was introduced to this concept of the elect. It was actually my first time hearing that God does not call everyone to be saved thus meaning that people are predestined to eternal damnation. I had vaguely heard about predestination in listening to John Piper and hearing that this is an ideal held by many Calvinists (please do step in and correct me as appropriate).
In just hearing about this concept (and I hate to admit this but) I am finding it immensely depressing.
Mark 13:20 (NIV) -
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them."
Is this concept widely held outside of Calvinism?
If you have passages of scripture to share either for or against predestination, please feel free to share.
What are your thoughts on the elect and regarding predestination?
Elect = saint = Spiritual of 1 Cor 2 = those who" I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." = mature, perfect = men VS Soul based nature of 1 Cor 2 = called = women, this all proto-Valentinian terms.
and elder brother VS younger brother from Prodigal Son story. Solid food VS milk.
I was watching a debate with John MacArthur and some others and was introduced to this concept of the elect. It was actually my first time hearing that God does not call everyone to be saved thus meaning that people are predestined to eternal damnation. I had vaguely heard about predestination in listening to John Piper and hearing that this is an ideal held by many Calvinists (please do step in and correct me as appropriate).
In just hearing about this concept (and I hate to admit this but) I am finding it immensely depressing.
Mark 13:20 (NIV) -
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them."
Is this concept widely held outside of Calvinism?
If you have passages of scripture to share either for or against predestination, please feel free to share.
What are your thoughts on the elect and regarding predestination?
Election and predestination are Biblical concepts. The words themselves are used in Scripture.
However, Calvin had a unique take on those concepts that distinguished his teachings and his followers from the traditional Catholic view.
You say that you're a baby Christian or a "babe in Christ" - I'm glad to hear that you have found Christ! What you'll quickly discover is that there are many opposing and mutually-exclusive doctrines within Christianity that all use Bible passages in their defense.
What is your basis or foundation of authority when it comes to matters of faith? What is the ultimate source of truth?
Election and predestination are Biblical concepts. The words themselves are used in Scripture.
However, Calvin had a unique take on those concepts that distinguished his teachings and his followers from the traditional Catholic view.
You say that you're a baby Christian or a "babe in Christ" - I'm glad to hear that you have found Christ! What you'll quickly discover is that there are many opposing and mutually-exclusive doctrines within Christianity that all use Bible passages in their defense.
What is your basis or foundation of authority when it comes to matters of faith? What is the ultimate source of truth?
To answer your question, scripture is my ultimate source of truth.
It can just be so hard to understand sometimes. I totally get that many opposing views can be supported by scripture based on one's own interpretation of what is written. I'd like to understand the opposing view to predestination so that I can make my best determination of what the scripture really means about all of this.
You've got some regulars on here who are happy as clams to be part of the elect and equally excited that they won the God Lottery and others didn't. Although they would deny it, the excitement at the thought of others tossed in a firy lake comes through loud and clear.
To answer your question, scripture is my ultimate source of truth.
Why? Does Scripture call itself the ultimate source of truth, and is it self-authenticating?
Quote:
Originally Posted by southkakkatlantan
It can just be so hard to understand sometimes. I totally get that many opposing views can be supported by scripture based on one's own interpretation of what is written.
Acts 8:30-31: So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
How are we to evaluate whose interpretation is correct? Is it even possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by southkakkatlantan
I'd like to understand the opposing view to predestination so that I can make my best determination of what the scripture really means about all of this.
The opposing view to Calvin's predestination would be the free will teachings of Jacobus Arminius.
Both Calvinism and Arminianism are relative novelties as both were invented in the 16 century. Historic, Apostolic Christianity does not hold to either view.
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You seem like you can handle yourself just fine.
