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Why are arguing with me on this? "Death" is spiritual here. I'm talking about the judgment of God. I don't observe any carnal Sabbath day. Neither Saturday nor Sunday is the "Christian Sabbath," as it were. My Sabbath is in Christ. I rest in Christ, because I am dead to sin. I have eternal life, and I can never lose it, because I am sealed. Anyone who is not resting in Christ will surely be put to death, just as the scripture says.
You're the one who quoted Exodus 31:15 which referred to physical death by stoning (Numbers 15:32-35), not spiritual death.
If that wasn't your intended meaning you should have made that clear instead of making it seem like you observe the Jewish Sabbath because the penalty is death (by stoning).
You're the one who quoted Exodus 31:15 which referred to physical death by stoning (Numbers 15:32-35), not spiritual death.
If that wasn't your intended meaning you should have made that clear instead of making it seem like you observe the Jewish Sabbath because the penalty is death (by stoning).
I thought it was clear I was talking about the rest that is in Christ, and that that is how I see the Sabbath. Therefore, the death ought to be interpreted spiritually. Indeed, all the law and prophets can be interpreted spiritually in Christ. It's my observation that the person I was responding to thinks he knows something about the law and prophets. Well, then my response was to show what these scriptures mean spiritually in Christ.
i thought it was clear i was talking about the rest that is in christ, and that that is how i see the sabbath. Therefore, the death ought to be interpreted spiritually. Indeed, all the law and prophets can be interpreted spiritually in christ. It's my observation that the person i was responding to thinks he knows something about the law and prophets. Well, then my response was to show what these scriptures mean spiritually in christ.
I thought it was clear I was talking about the rest that is in Christ, and that that is how I see the Sabbath. Therefore, the death ought to be interpreted spiritually. Indeed, all the law and prophets can be interpreted spiritually in Christ. It's my observation that the person I was responding to thinks he knows something about the law and prophets. Well, then my response was to show what these scriptures mean spiritually in Christ.
Why dont you spend a couple decades just studying the literal history?
You are reading the New Testament as if you know what it is saying when you are completely ignorant of the nations it is speaking of.
Again, there are freaking millions of Jews, and do you want me to tell you why they are Jews and why you arent?
There are freaking millions of Israelis and do you want me to tell you why they are Israelis and you arent?
The chosen nation of God are the only people in the world who LITERALY follow God's religion.
For 2000 years Chriatians have been torturing and killing anyone WHO DARED TO FOLLOW THE SAME RELIGION AS JESUS.
You dont practice the same religion as Jesus, how you gonna become one with people who do?
Millions of people walking in God's religion THAT OBVIOUSLY MAKE THEM GOD'S PEOPLE, JEWS AND ISRAELIS
They are freaking real people that you are sitting there ACTING LIKE THEY DONT EXIST.
People write me because I get rude sometimes like when I call people racists or Anti Semites.
Do you think that for one second that your mentality is not dangerous?
You think your mentality of having replaced the Jews isnt the same mentality the inquisitors had?
Hitler uaed the same mentality, even using the words of Martin Luther in getting the Christian country behind him, and that wasnt 2000 years ago, it was in my father's lifetime
You have all the liberty you desire in joining God's people, but they cant join you in your lawless Babylonian religion.
Your lawlessness, your paganism separates you, but not only that, you wouldnt join God's people in a million years, you obviously have ZERO RESPECT OF THEM BEING A PEOPLE.
Instead of joining and converting to the same religion as Messiah, you have chosen to be the messiah's worst enemy.
You havnt replaced anyone.
Israel is a spiritual people, in fact its the Church, the Bride of Christ. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. You are promoting confidence in the flesh.
Israel is a spiritual people, in fact its the Church, the Bride of Christ. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. You are promoting confidence in the flesh.
Yes, absolutely. As it's written, "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Rom 9:6). And,
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:29)
Israel is God's elect nation. Those who believe in Christ are said to be grafted in. The church is not a "replacement" as it were for Israel, as some have said. The difference is this. For example:
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. (Hosea 11:1)
Now, that verse is superficially talking about Israel as an entire people. BUT, if you look at it deeper, if anyone is in Christ, it is also talking about him specifically. How does this work? Well, the calling and gifts of God are without repentance (Rom 11:6). So, while the nation of Israel was severely chastised, yet God has regathered them in the land. All Israel shall be saved, it is written. Likewise, from an individual standpoint, for anyone who is in Christ, you are Israel, and Egypt represents the world. You are in an everlasting, unbreakable covenant of grace with God. That's true on an individual, personal level. Jesus calls His sheep by name, and will not lose a single one. In contrast, being part of the nation of Israel (after the flesh) was never a guarantee of eternal life.
I'm saying this because some people promote the view that the church has replaced Israel. The church is all those who are called out: each individual in Christ collectively. It's not some institution that serves as a replacement to Israel, where you can join yourself to it, but also leave or be cut off. But in Christ, each one individually has an everlasting name that shall not be cut off. (And in case anyone would bring up Rom 11:22, know that the cutting off refers to chastisement, just like what happened to Israel as a nation. The death of Jesus as the Son of God is also a picture of this.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Well, I never thought I'd get such a response from you.
I was watching a debate with John MacArthur and some others and was introduced to this concept of the elect. It was actually my first time hearing that God does not call everyone to be saved thus meaning that people are predestined to eternal damnation. I had vaguely heard about predestination in listening to John Piper and hearing that this is an ideal held by many Calvinists (please do step in and correct me as appropriate).
In just hearing about this concept (and I hate to admit this but) I am finding it immensely depressing.
Mark 13:20 (NIV) -
"If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them."
Is this concept widely held outside of Calvinism?
If you have passages of scripture to share either for or against predestination, please feel free to share.
What are your thoughts on the elect and regarding predestination?
Jesus is the God of "whosoever will" come to Him in faith will be saved. HE knew before putting the earth into place who would be with Him at the end, but ALL had a choice to make, nobody was assigned to hell by the Lord. Jesus looks on the heart and He sends the Holy Spirit to draw in those who want to know Him. You can see this in Lydia Acts 16.........when that happens its time to show your faith believing in the ONE GOSPEL that saves today 1COR 15:1-4. The Lord loves all, dying for them while they were enemies. Accept that Gospel today and be assured of your eternity with Christ.........
Israel is a spiritual people, in fact its the Church, the Bride of Christ. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. You are promoting confidence in the flesh.
No I am not.
Jews and Israelis love and follow the commandments of God and all it entails with all its Sabbaths and feasts, THAT IS WHAT MAKES THEM GOD'S PEOPLE GENIUS.
You keep the lawless ways of Baal having no law, and pagan Sabbaths and feasts.
Jews and Israelis remain Jews and Israelis because they are the only people history and still to this day that love and practice the religion of Messiah.
Because you are lawless and pagan, you have some type of illusion that your lawlessness and pagan holy days make you a part of Gods chosen, but they separate you.
I mean, how hard is that to figure out, you think God has done away with THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO KEEP HIS RELIGION TO PUT YOU IN THEIR PLACE?
LOL, WHAT KIND OF BACKWARDS GOD DO YOU THINK YOU SERVE?
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 12-05-2021 at 10:17 AM..
Jews and Israelis love and follow the commandments of God and all it entails with all its Sabbaths and feasts, THAT IS WHAT MAKES THEM GOD'S PEOPLE GENIUS.
You keep the lawless ways of Baal having no law, and pagan Sabbaths and feasts.
Jews and Israelis remain Jews and Israelis because they are the only people history and still to this day that love and practice the religion of Messiah.
Because you are lawless and pagan, you have some type of illusion that your lawlessness and pagan holy days make you a part of Gods chosen, but they separate you.
I mean, how hard is that to figure out, you think God has done away with THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO KEEP HIS RELIGION TO PUT YOU IN THEIR PLACE?
LOL, WHAT KIND OF BACKWARDS GOD DO YOU THINK YOU SERVE?
An idol is the work of man's hands (Isaiah 2:8). The real idolatry is to worship the work of one's own hands, which is one's own good works, or works of the law. That includes all of man's fleshy efforts to keep the weak and beggarly elements (Gal 4:9-10) of the law, including a Saturday (or Sunday) Sabbath. The worship of God which is in Christ is in Spirit and in Truth.
Colossians 2:16-17:
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Yes, absolutely. As it's written, "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Rom 9:6). And,
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:29)
Israel is God's elect nation. Those who believe in Christ are said to be grafted in. The church is not a "replacement" as it were for Israel, as some have said. The difference is this. For example:
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. (Hosea 11:1)
Now, that verse is superficially talking about Israel as an entire people. BUT, if you look at it deeper, if anyone is in Christ, it is also talking about him specifically. How does this work? Well, the calling and gifts of God are without repentance (Rom 11:6). So, while the nation of Israel was severely chastised, yet God has regathered them in the land. All Israel shall be saved, it is written. Likewise, from an individual standpoint, for anyone who is in Christ, you are Israel, and Egypt represents the world. You are in an everlasting, unbreakable covenant of grace with God. That's true on an individual, personal level. Jesus calls His sheep by name, and will not lose a single one. In contrast, being part of the nation of Israel (after the flesh) was never a guarantee of eternal life.
I'm saying this because some people promote the view that the church has replaced Israel. The church is all those who are called out: each individual in Christ collectively. It's not some institution that serves as a replacement to Israel, where you can join yourself to it, but also leave or be cut off. But in Christ, each one individually has an everlasting name that shall not be cut off. (And in case anyone would bring up Rom 11:22, know that the cutting off refers to chastisement, just like what happened to Israel as a nation. The death of Jesus as the Son of God is also a picture of this.)
Well, I never thought I'd get such a response from you.
All this spoken to Gentiles converts to Judaism, what does it have to do with Christians?
Jesus came bringing a new covenant for Israel and Judah, what in the world does that have to do with Christians?
Did God write his law in the hearts of Christians?
CERTAINLY NOT.
Is IT There?
NO, IT CERTAINLY IS NOT
Christians are under the delusion that Jesus came doing away with his father's commandments, to do away with God's Sabbaths and feasts that would make him the anti Christ, same anti Christ as every Christian who stands against everything called of God or worshipped of God as you all sit in your own temple proving yourself to be a God because you think your laws and your Sabbath's are above the laws and Sabbaths of God
The very essence of anti Christ.
Jesus didnt come teaching your lawlesness, he said that those of you who hate and wont keep the law to teach others not to keep the law will be the least in the kingdom.
Anti Christ comes to change the times and the seasons of God so that the children of Israel will not know the days of their own visitatation.
Every Christians quote are written to the Elect, and the elect cant be decieved by lawlesness or paganism.
They cant become Christians, and they arent amongst Christians, they are people who accept the religion of Christ.
Judah and Israel are real living people that you people claim to be amongst, but you arent even in the same religion.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 12-05-2021 at 12:21 PM..
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"Death" is spiritual here. I'm talking about the judgment of God. I don't observe any carnal Sabbath day. Neither Saturday nor Sunday is the "Christian Sabbath," as it were. My Sabbath is in Christ. I rest in Christ, because I am dead to sin. I have eternal life, and I can never lose it, because I am sealed. Anyone who is not resting in Christ will surely be put to death, just as the scripture says.
