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Even Jesus Himself recognized the lawful authority of the Pharisees (Matthew 23:2-3).
Quote:
Originally Posted by woxyroxme
You are taking things out of context by cherry picking a few verses and not reading the whole chapter, Jesus was rebuking the Pharisees, what does Matthew 23:9 say for example?
I'm not taking anything out of context. Do you deny that Jesus recognized the lawful authority of the Pharisees? Just because someone is in a place of authority, does not mean they are above rebuke. Paul rebuked Peter, even though Peter was chief of the Apostles.
Even so; since Jesus is God, He has authority over all and is free to rebuke as He pleases.
I'm not taking anything out of context. Do you deny that Jesus recognized the lawful authority of the Pharisees? Just because someone is in a place of authority, does not mean they are above rebuke. Paul rebuked Peter, even though Peter was chief of the Apostles.
Even so; since Jesus is God, He has authority over all and is free to rebuke as He pleases.
..Jesus recognized the lawful authority of the Pharisees
Jesus recognized their torrid state of legalism, and put them in their place. Law above love. Judgement over understanding and forgiveness. And they in turn hated him for that.
There's no adoration from Jesus from them. They were 180 degrees opposite his message. The ways of the old and new were now firmly clear.
Jesus recognized their torrid state of legalism, and put them in their place. Law above love. Judgement over understanding and forgiveness. And they in turn hated him for that.
There's no adoration from Jesus from them. They were 180 degrees opposite his message.
...and yet He still recognized their authority ("they sit in Moses' seat") and told the people to listen to them. What do you make of that?
...and yet He still recognized their authority ("they sit in Moses' seat") and told the people to listen to them. What do you make of that?
They continued to hate Jesus, follow him around, try to accuse him and make him look like Satan, tried to push him off cliffs, and ultimately cheered as his was taken for crucifixion.
Unless you're a Jew (which you might be) and want to continue their ways, that's what we're left with as far as they go, and their final position.
They continued to hate Jesus, follow him around, try to accuse him and make him look like Satan, tried to push him off cliffs, and ultimately cheered as his was taken for crucifixion.
Unless you're a Jew and want to continue their ways, that's what we're left with as far as they go, and their final position.
All irrelevant. We're talking about authority here.
This is a direct quote from Jesus Himself: "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."
Now do you still want to argue that there's no such thing as spiritual authority?
Truth isn't fragile; it's humans that are fragile, fickle, self-destructive, arrogant, and obstinate.
Truth is self-evident. That a thing is self-evident does not mean that it will be readily embraced by any means.
Yeah I know it's all people's fault somehow but yet I really have never heard of anyone not embracing the "self evident" law of gravity. Even people who want to die believe in it, they are just deliberately violating it so that they can die.
With religion though there's no way to test the theory. You can throw a water balloon out a 10th floor window and see it splat 100 feet below, and you can repeat that a thousand times to confirm it; but you don't know if there's an afterlife and which one you get until you die, so you have to figure out whether to believe faith alone saves you, if works are involved, if salvation is a discrete one-time-and-done event or possible to be lost, and if the latter, exactly what things would bring that about; what role an intermediary confessor like a priest does or doesn't play; and on and on. And that's assuming you even picked the right overall religion to begin with.
And in the end, 100% of every living person's life goes on just as it did before, as far as can be determined.
In any case, people who know me, know that I'm not arrogant, obstinate, self destructive or any of those other things, so there's that.
I respect your personal choice to believe what you want; it just never worked for me.
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