Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Again, it isn't about all going to heaven. There are very many scriptures which speak to the eventual restoration of all to God, Fundamentalist.
Quote:
At the end, there is no place for sin, evil, or hell, for God is all in all! If God has to cast some people into everlasting hell, it means that He was unable to get them to submit themselves to Him. They won't be submitting themselves to Him in hell; they will be hating Him and cursing Him for all eternity. What kind of subjection is that? All will willingly subject themselves to Jesus and to God the Father after He has purged them of all sin and rebellion. The same word is used of Christ's subjection to the Father, and of the subjection of Christ's enemies to Him. Obviously Christ's subjection to the Father is out of love. How can endless evil and torment be described as subjection to Jesus? If the majority of mankind will go to everlasting hell after death, it would seem that death will have won a gigantic victory! Ephesians 4:8: "When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men." Who are these captives? Luke 11:22, which we have already looked at, tells us. When Christ, the stronger man, broke into the strong man's (Satan's) house, he carried away all his belongings. 1 Peter 3:19, 4:6 tells us that Christ went and proclaimed the gospel to the spirits in prison (Hades) that they might live in the Spirit as God does.Ephesians 4:10: "He who descended is the one who ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things."As we saw in looking at Ephesians 1:23, if Christ fills all things, how can there be an everlasting hell where people are forever shut out from the pres¬ence of Christ? The doctrine of eternal hell totally contradicts so many verses of scripture. The day is coming when God will completely eradicate sin from existence, not just keep it tucked away in a dark corner of the universe called hell forever
What is your definition of "restoration"?? Come on, your whole theology is a stretch and it really does make one ask....where is the common sense??
Why can you not see that when scripture says that Jesus came for all, that it means just that?? He came to die for "all"...did he not?? BUT....not "all" accept Him and what He did....correct???
Those who do not accept do not go to heaven or get "restored", whatever the heck that means. There is not a certain amount of jail time and then everyone is released. Hell is eternal, eternal, eternal....forever, and ever and ever, Amen.
Why is this a big deal that you are saying all will be "restored" when in fact they won't????? I've told you this probably a hundred times.....because you are deceived and you are also deceiving unbelievers into thinking they are safe no matter what they do. Come out of yourselves and realize that your definition of love is not God's definition.....YES, He is a God of love but He is also holy and He cannot lie. He will destroy the unrighteous, and it ain't no slap on the wrist.
Why the need to convince yourselves and others that there is no eternal hell? If a person is saved and living right then why the need to obsess about it? You have no trouble believing the Bible when it says that heaven is eternal. The only reason I could possibly conceive that people need to believe this lie is because they are living a lie. They are not living a Christian life and following the commandments of the Bible so what better way to feel better about that than to lie to themselves and others?? Hey, if you secretly want to believe there is no eternal hell then whatever, but you'd better stop spreading the lie that there isn't one. Do you want to stand in front of God on judgment day and have to answer for telling lies that sent thousands of people to hell? Man, I wouldn't because it means I would be finding out just how real and ETERNAL hell is after Jesus said "I never knew you"!!!
Shana, your quote from M. Chamberlain borders on something else that was in my mind. Out of the 14 verse sentence in Ephesians 1 there is the following: "...making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him) to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ -- both that in the heavens and that on the earth..." (Ep 1:9-10, CLV) The AV says in verse 10: "...in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ..." This resonates with "Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.) (1 Co 15:28, CLV)
Now, based on this clear teaching from the word, it follows that if there is ceaseless torture for ever then God will always be sick and suffering. All things being one and re-headed with Christ would mean their "hell," if it was real, would be included in Him. No other conclusion can be reached. God would be "eternally" tortured. This would contradict Revelation 21:4 that says,"...there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Rv 21:4, AV)
A few words earlier than what we quoted above, there is this statement, "The last enemy is being abolished: death." (1 Co 15:26) Though none of the translations paste in "hell" in relation to it, the lake of fire is called, "the second death." (Rv 20:14, 21:8) If this was to ceaselessly continue for ever then Death would permanently be in God. As well, it would contradict the just quoted Divine Word that death will be abolished, and would repudiate, again: "...and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new." (Rv 21:4-5, AV)
So, a God for ever suffering pain, ceaselsesly tortured and becoming Himself: Death! I just don't see it in the Word. Of course, since God's sacrifice of His Son doesn't satisfy Him for those He must ceaselessly torture for ever, He can never be satisfied either. Since they must be ceaselessly tortured for ever it is obvious they are not forgiven either, so their God cannot forgive, not ever! I think I'll just stay with my Bible! "The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's the book for me!" DEATH ABOLISHED! NO MORE PAIN!! ALL THINGS NEW!!!
Shana, your quote from M. Chamberlain borders on something else that was in my mind. Out of the 14 verse sentence in Ephesians 1 there is the following: "...making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him) to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ -- both that in the heavens and that on the earth..." (Ep 1:9-10, CLV) The AV says in verse 10: "...in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ..." This resonates with "Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.) (1 Co 15:28, CLV)
Now, based on this clear teaching from the word, it follows that if there is ceaseless torture for ever then God will always be sick and suffering. All things being one and re-headed with Christ would mean their "hell," if it was real, would be included in Him. No other conclusion can be reached. God would be "eternally" tortured. This would contradict Revelation 21:4 that says,"...there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Rv 21:4, AV)
A few words earlier than what we quoted above, there is this statement, "The last enemy is being abolished: death." (1 Co 15:26) Though none of the translations paste in "hell" in relation to it, the lake of fire is called, "the second death." (Rv 20:14, 21:8) If this was to ceaselessly continue for ever then Death would permanently be in God. As well, it would contradict the just quoted Divine Word that death will be abolished, and would repudiate, again: "...and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new." (Rv 21:4-5, AV)
So, a God for ever suffering pain, ceaselsesly tortured and becoming Himself: Death! I just don't see it in the Word. Of course, since God's sacrifice of His Son doesn't satisfy Him for those He must ceaselessly torture for ever, He can never be satisfied either. Since they must be ceaselessly tortured for ever it is obvious they are not forgiven either, so their God cannot forgive, not ever! I think I'll just stay with my Bible! "The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's the book for me!" DEATH ABOLISHED! NO MORE PAIN!! ALL THINGS NEW!!!
Amen, James. Thank you for sharing.
Quote:
I think I'll just stay with my Bible! "The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's the book for me!" DEATH ABOLISHED! NO MORE PAIN!! ALL THINGS NEW!!!
Amen and Amen God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-09-2009 at 10:58 PM..
Hello, DayoftheLord. Apokatallasso as in Col. 1, the restoration of a relationship of peace which has been disturbed (Hebrew/Greek Word Study, not my definition)
To Reconcile=
To cause to be friendly again.
To conciliate anew.
To restore to friendship.
To bring back to harmony.
To cause to be no longer at variance.
To bring to acquiescence and quiet submission.
To bring to agreement.
To bring into consonance and accord.
To make compatible.
To call back to fellowship.
To restore to fellowship.
To settle, harmonize and make compatible.
To bring together/ conciliate/ placate/ re-unite/ adjust.
To re-establish a close relationship.
Reconcile= Apokatallasso
Apokatallasso=
To reconcile completely.
To reconcile back again.
To bring back a former state of harmony
From the Restitution of All thread.
Quote:
Come on, your whole theology is a stretch and it really does make one ask....where is the common sense??
It's all about what God has revealed in His word. It isn't my theology, DayoftheLord.
Quote:
Why can you not see that when scripture says that Jesus came for all, that it means just that?? He came to die for "all"...did he not?? BUT....not "all" accept Him and what He did....correct???
All do not accept Him today. All will accept Him when all are reconciled to God.
Quote:
Those who do not accept do not go to heaven or get "restored", whatever the heck that means. There is not a certain amount of jail time and then everyone is released. Hell is eternal, eternal, eternal....forever, and ever and ever, Amen.
Hell is not eternal. Eternal means that it has always existed. and will always exist, having had no beginning and having no end. Only God is eternal. Hell cannot be everlasting if all are reconciled to God. Jesus is to fill all things.
Quote:
Why is this a big deal that you are saying all will be "restored" when in fact they won't????? I've told you this probably a hundred times.....because you are deceived and you are also deceiving unbelievers into thinking they are safe no matter what they do. Come out of yourselves and realize that your definition of love is not God's definition.....YES, He is a God of love but He is also holy and He cannot lie. He will destroy the unrighteous, and it ain't no slap on the wrist.
Yes, God is love, agape love. He is righteous, and He will destroy unrighteousness. Unrighteous men will not exist forever in an eternal hell. God is able to subdue all things to Himself and Jesus came to destroy the works of satan.
Quote:
Why the need to convince yourselves and others that there is no eternal hell? If a person is saved and living right then why the need to obsess about it? You have no trouble believing the Bible when it says that heaven is eternal. The only reason I could possibly conceive that people need to believe this lie is because they are living a lie. They are not living a Christian life and following the commandments of the Bible so what better way to feel better about that than to lie to themselves and others?? Hey, if you secretly want to believe there is no eternal hell then whatever, but you'd better stop spreading the lie that there isn't one. Do you want to stand in front of God on judgment day and have to answer for telling lies that sent thousands of people to hell? Man, I wouldn't because it means I would be finding out just how real and ETERNAL hell is after Jesus said "I never knew you"!!!
Good news is to be shared. God is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-09-2009 at 11:18 PM..
What is your definition of "restoration"?? Come on, your whole theology is a stretch and it really does make one ask....where is the common sense??
Why can you not see that when scripture says that Jesus came for all, that it means just that?? He came to die for "all"...did he not?? BUT....not "all" accept Him and what He did....correct???
Those who do not accept do not go to heaven or get "restored", whatever the heck that means. There is not a certain amount of jail time and then everyone is released. Hell is eternal, eternal, eternal....forever, and ever and ever, Amen.
Why is this a big deal that you are saying all will be "restored" when in fact they won't????? I've told you this probably a hundred times.....because you are deceived and you are also deceiving unbelievers into thinking they are safe no matter what they do. Come out of yourselves and realize that your definition of love is not God's definition.....YES, He is a God of love but He is also holy and He cannot lie. He will destroy the unrighteous, and it ain't no slap on the wrist.
Why the need to convince yourselves and others that there is no eternal hell? If a person is saved and living right then why the need to obsess about it? You have no trouble believing the Bible when it says that heaven is eternal. The only reason I could possibly conceive that people need to believe this lie is because they are living a lie. They are not living a Christian life and following the commandments of the Bible so what better way to feel better about that than to lie to themselves and others?? Hey, if you secretly want to believe there is no eternal hell then whatever, but you'd better stop spreading the lie that there isn't one. Do you want to stand in front of God on judgment day and have to answer for telling lies that sent thousands of people to hell? Man, I wouldn't because it means I would be finding out just how real and ETERNAL hell is after Jesus said "I never knew you"!!!
What Gospel or good news do you espouse day? The good news that God will lose the overwhelming majority of his creation to some fabled eternal torment? Now you may find YOUR justice ,that you want so bad to believe ,in your english translated version but you won`t find it in the original language in which the NT was written. It`s obvious you are not a student of the bible, but someone who loves the teachings of man. Why do you limit God? Why do you think God is not able to save everyone? Why do you believe God created this world if only to see 99% of it lost to satan. Why do you think satan will be victorious over God? Why do you think man`s will is more powerful than God`s will? You are not more powerful than God, Day. He didn`t leave the outcome of what he has created to the creation, that is absurd! If you truly searched the scriptures and the meanings of words and the nature of God, you will find that eternal torment is a pagan theology. Do some early church history study. You will have to get out of your pew and research it on your own, though. If you are waiting for your church to teach it to you, then you won`t find it. Don`t be part of the masses. Don`t follow the crowd. Remember, MANY are called BUT FEW are chosen. Right now you are part of the many, the millions upon millions who believe what they have been taught in sunday school. It`s time, as an adult, to take your study of God`s word seriously. SEEK SEEK SEEK, the truth. Don`t just sit there and take what they feed you as the literal truth.
Let me ask you a few questions.
1) Do you believe God wants ALL men to be saved?
2) Do you believe it would pleasure God if ALL men were saved?
3) Do you believe that your direction is determined by God?
What is your definition of "restoration"?? Come on, your whole theology is a stretch and it really does make one ask....where is the common sense??
Common sense says that if we are to be made in the image and likeness of God, as He has said, then we are to become Master Torturers too, if what you say is true. YOU BECOME LIKE THE GOD YOU SERVE!!! Under the statute known as de heretico comburendo they burned Christians at the stake in England from 1401 for over 200 years and longer in the rest of Europe. The Roman Catholics of the Inquisition said to them that they only, "Consign to temporal flames that you may be saved from eternal flames." To have any of the Bible in English was considered sufficient proof of heresy. But you want to copy their beliefs?!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Why can you not see that when scripture says that Jesus came for all, that it means just that?? He came to die for "all"...did he not?? BUT....not "all" accept Him and what He did....correct???
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Php 2:10-11, AV) Sounds like it's saying in the most complete way possible, everything in heaven, earth and under the earth. See how that affects the immediately next verse (v.12) supplying the exact opposite to what many have suggested would be the result of understanding Jesus to be the Saviour of All: "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." It also says in Romans, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." (Rm 10:9) Here they're saying He is the Lord and "no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." (1 Co 12:3, AV) Being raised from the dead and facing a resurrected immortal Jesus in His glory, I'm sure they believe in their hearts that God raised Him from the dead. According to the revelation given to Paul, they're saved and made righteous. This "every knee should bow...and every tongue confess" event occurs after the destruction of the last enemy death, certainly abolishing its worse form, the second death. I have as much reason or better to suspect that as modern traditions that place it elsewhere in time. The context in Phillipians doesn't make it clear. If I'm aware of conjecture I try to point it out. BIBLE FACTS!!! That's what we must submit to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Those who do not accept do not go to heaven or get "restored", whatever the heck that means. There is not a certain amount of jail time and then everyone is released. Hell is eternal, eternal, eternal....forever, and ever and ever, Amen.
What you're parroting is words of men's traditions. Bible, Bible, Bible! Chapter and verse, where is it? The phrase: "Go to heaven" never occurs in the Bible in relation to anything! While never presented as our destination, "heaven" is our place of origin (Rev 21:9-10) and present habitation (Eph 2:6.) The word "heaven" is slightly more than half the time plural in Scripture. In reality there are three (3) heavens, (2 Co 12:2) corresponding to the dimensions of spirit (where peculiarly God's presence is), soul (psychic realm,) and body (the heaven of earth's atmosphere to the distant galaxies.) Jesus has passed through all the heavens (Hb 4:14) and rests up over all in the right of the Great All-Togetherness upon High (Hb 1:3.) While we are joined to Him there in ascension, we are undergoing a process with His Spirit sharing the same body in union with Him down into death and through resurrection to come into the demonstration of ascension.
Here's another BIBLE FACT! Neither will you ever find the phrase: "Go to Church" in the Bible. Since the Fire came upon us at Pentecost, everywhere we go the Presence of God is with us. We can't go someplace we are! For at least 300 years there was a religion in this world unlike any other. We had no priests and no temples. We are the priests. We are the temple. Now, started by Lutheran Pietists in the end of the 1500's, many call their priests "Pastors" and nobody else can get a crumb!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Why is this a big deal that you are saying all will be "restored" when in fact they won't????? I've told you this probably a hundred times.....because you are deceived and you are also deceiving unbelievers into thinking they are safe no matter what they do.
How little is God known! In a very real sense, NOBODY IS SAFE! The promise to not be hurt by the second death, which is the lake of fire, is made only to the Overcomer. (Rv 2:11) That is not every "Christian;" but, only those who are victorious over sin. They are those who have conquered the world, the flesh and the devil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Come out of yourselves and realize that your definition of love is not God's definition.....YES, He is a God of love but He is also holy and He cannot lie. He will destroy the unrighteous, and it ain't no slap on the wrist.
He's destroying the unrighteous me, and He'll do the same for everybody else in due time. God is no respecter of persons! Every man's work, not just the Christian's, will be tried by fire, according to the Bible. Some teach God has two thrones and that He wears two faces and judges by two laws, depending which throne He's sitting on. None of that is in the Bible. There is one God and He will render to every man according to is work. His throne is called "The Mercy Throne" or, "The Throne of Grace." It is, "...a great white throne and him that sat on it..." which is a many-membered (1 Co 12:12) Overcomer in the throne (Rv 3:21,) "...from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." (Rv 20:11, AV)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Why the need to convince yourselves and others that there is no eternal hell? If a person is saved and living right then why the need to obsess about it? You have no trouble believing the Bible when it says that heaven is eternal.
It does not! Jesus says, "Heaven and Earth shall pass away; but, My Word shall never pass away." He says He will make a new Heaven and a new Earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
The only reason I could possibly conceive that people need to believe this lie is because they are living a lie. They are not living a Christian life and following the commandments of the Bible so what better way to feel better about that than to lie to themselves and others?? Hey, if you secretly want to believe there is no eternal hell then whatever, but you'd better stop spreading the lie that there isn't one.
One? Which one? Gehenna? That was the only one Jesus spoke of. Paul never mentioned anything about any of these things. Or, Hades, the state that results from death is what you mean? maybe, Tartarus? Never in Scripture is there any statement that any of these are the same. They are spelled differently for a reason. For translators to paste one English word over these various terms without any Biblical warrant is to twist the Word of God.
Then there's the old lying slander: if we get fastidious about what is actually written about these things it is because we love our sins. You are taught to answer that way. It is a spirit of deception and immorality they've accused me of, knowing nothing about my life. We very much uphold every letter and every word of Scripture. I deny nothing about everything written concerning Sheol and Hades, Gehenna and the lake of fire. I seek to understand perfectly and obey perfectly. And not only in the context of this discussion of the view of a triumphant eschatology, let me say something about people so easily accusing others of liking sin or not really wanting to stop sinning when they stumble, and sometimes repeatedly. It's one more Satanic dart to be overcome. I know how it hurts when with all your heart you don't want to sin. You hate it; yet, seem inexplicably the slave to it when a little before you were praising God with all sincerity. People don't know what they're talking about concerning many of these things. I'd like any of you to explain how to never do any act of sin again. I searched for years for the answer to this. Just try to find something written about, "How to Stop Sinning," and even harder, that actually delivers the goods and enables as promised! How rare it is indeed! I know the answer, so you can't put one over on me. I just want to find out who knows something so basic. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Do you want to stand in front of God on judgment day and have to answer for telling lies that sent thousands of people to hell.
Can you quote even one statement from Holy Writ something to the effect that you must believe in ceaseless torture for ever or you will be ceaselessly tortured for ever? (No!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
Man, I wouldn't because it means I would be finding out just how real and ETERNAL hell is after Jesus said "I never knew you"!!!
What Jesus knows in us is His Word that is at home in us. Jesus is the Word made flesh. His Word united with us, because we've believed and done it, is what will never be destroyed. His Word in us is what is anointed. If what you keep saying is the words of men's traditions it will be burnt up. "The fire will prove every human's work." Not just the "Christians," neither are they exempt: everyman! Make your confession of faith with the actual words that God the Holy Spirit chose to make His revelation known. There should be chapter and verse in which are the exact words you use for what you believe.
James you have convinced yourself to believe this lie, and you can break down my posts as much as you want but you always say the same things which have nothing to do with what I said.
That's the thing about all of these false doctrines....they are based on a few twisted scriptures to suit the desires of what one WANTS to believe.
You accuse me and others of parroting teachers and that I have been taught to answer a certain way...THAT cannot be further from the truth. That is what you are doing!! You have been taught somewhere along the line this lie....you cannot deny that!! What I know to be truth is taught in the Bible and discerned through the Holy Spirit. NO ONE has taught me but the Holy Spirit.....the answers I give can all be found in the Bible and they come from me, not someone else who brainwashed me. That's impossible, in fact, because I don't GO TO CHURCH, I have had to de-program myself from error filled teaching and abuse. You do not know me and what I have gone through but you can know this.....I base EVERYTHING I say on scripture and nothing on what men have said or teach.
You mentioned that going to church is not in the Bible. Duh!! Do you think you are the highest authority on what the Bible says? But what the Bible DOES say is to fellowship with other Christians. You hear what you want to hear, you went searching for like minded and deceived people who taught something that YOU wanted to believe. If you search hard enough you can find pretty much any false teaching that you want to adhere to.
The scripture you cited---
"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Can you not see that you base your belief on basically two words? "ALL" and "THINGS". How lame. This is a COMMON SENSE scripture. Yes, everyone will be serving God in the end. Satan will be destroyed and be in hell along with everyone else....He will have no more power. So common sense tells us that whether in hell or heaven, all will be subject to God, all will bow. Duh.
As Jesus subjects Himself to the Father, all will willingly subject themselves to the Father, same word. It was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself .They will no longer be His enemies. He is able to sudue all things to Himself. Death and evil will not reign or exist for all of eternity.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-10-2009 at 09:35 AM..
What is your definition of "restoration"?? Come on, your whole theology is a stretch and it really does make one ask....where is the common sense??
Why can you not see that when scripture says that Jesus came for all, that it means just that?? He came to die for "all"...did he not?? BUT....not "all" accept Him and what He did....correct???
Dear DOTL, I agree wholeheartedly with you that Christ died for all but not all accept Him. Do you understand that I agree with you on that point? Please tell me if you do understand.
Quote:
Those who do not accept do not go to heaven or get "restored", whatever the heck that means. There is not a certain amount of jail time and then everyone is released. Hell is eternal, eternal, eternal....forever, and ever and ever, Amen.
Eusebius' reply:
Likewise, those who do accept Him who are of Peter, James and John's ministry and who Christ specifically ministered to when on earth, do not go to heaven. They, in the resurrection, go into the kingdom on the earth to be set up by Christ in what is called the Millennium.
We of the nations, who accept the gospel/evangel of Paul are the ones that are said to "go to heaven." "for our realm is inherrent in the heavens out of which we are awaiting a Saviour also, the Lord Jesus, Christ" (Phil.3:20).
Quote:
Why is this a big deal that you are saying all will be "restored" when in fact they won't????? I've told you this probably a hundred times.....because you are deceived and you are also deceiving unbelievers into thinking they are safe no matter what they do. Come out of yourselves and realize that your definition of love is not God's definition.....YES, He is a God of love but He is also holy and He cannot lie. He will destroy the unrighteous, and it ain't no slap on the wrist.
Eusebius' reply: In a sense, DOTL I agree with you here too. But "destroy" does not mean "sent to eternal hell fire." Also, never is it said that they are destroyed "eternally." Oh, maybe you can find an improper translation
Here is a better translation:
2Th 1:7-10 and to you who are being afflicted, ease, with us, at the unveiling of the Lord Jesus from heaven with His powerful messengers, (8) in flaming fire, dealing out vengeance to those who are not acquainted with God and those who are not obeying the evangel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (9) who shall incurthe justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength" (10) whenever He may be coming to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all who believe (seeing that our testimony to you was believed) in that day.
or:
(Young's Literal Translation) who shall suffer justice--destruction age-during--from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
The term "everlasting destruction" is also true as long as you understand that destruction as lasting for an ever which is an age which is 1000 years duration.
But they cannot be so destroyed that they cannot be saved later for "God will save all mankind" (1Tim.2:4) and is in fact "the Saviour of all men" including those destroyed by the flood in Noah's day and those destroyed by fire etc.
Quote:
Why the need to convince yourselves and others that there is no eternal hell? If a person is saved and living right then why the need to obsess about it? You have no trouble believing the Bible when it says that heaven is eternal. The only reason I could possibly conceive that people need to believe this lie is because they are living a lie. They are not living a Christian life and following the commandments of the Bible so what better way to feel better about that than to lie to themselves and others?? Hey, if you secretly want to believe there is no eternal hell then whatever, but you'd better stop spreading the lie that there isn't one. Do you want to stand in front of God on judgment day and have to answer for telling lies that sent thousands of people to hell? Man, I wouldn't because it means I would be finding out just how real and ETERNAL hell is after Jesus said "I never knew you"!!!
Eusebius' reply: I know of no believer in the truth that God will save all mankind that they live bad lives like people who believe in eternal torment. The newspapers are filled with women who drown their children who believe in ET and sunday school teachers who mollest young girls, murder them, stuff them into suite cases, who believe in ET and pastors who put poison in kool aide to kill their congregation who believe in ET. Interesting that you never read about anyone who believes in UR doing those things.
BTW, we don't have to convince ourselves that God will save all mankind. It is just that God specifically tells us to "charge and teach that God is the Saviour of all mankind" and that "God will save all mankind" in 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 4:10,11). We just want to be obedient to God. Why are you disobedient? Why do you teach the very opposite of that which He tell us to charge and teach?
As to your last statement of Jesus saying "I never knew you," that would apply to you more than to us. For it is said to those who call Jesus their Lord but do not do that which He tells them to do. We are charging and teaching what He told us to. You are not.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
God bless.
