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The creature that groans and travails is the fleshly creation - in verse 23 it says not only the creation groans, but also those that have the firstfruits of the Spirit waiting for the redemption of the body.
Jesus says what is flesh is flesh and what is spirit is spirit - 2 different creations.
Romans is talking about this.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
To think that Paul is talking about the physical trees and rocks groaning to be united with the elect seems a bit bizarre.
It says the creation is to be delivered (sounds like childbirth - born of the Spirit) from bondage to corrupton into the liberty of the children of God.
Hebrews 2:9-10 (AV)...
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom areall things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings."
2 Corinthians 5:14-18 (AV)...
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God..."
By experience of some years of walking with God, both believing first how I was raised and according to my teachers, that there was ceaseless torture for ever for most humans, then also, since mid 1981, believing that it is, "...the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe," (1 Ti 4:10, AV), I can say that it is very true (as the 2 Co 5 passage states) without understanding and belief that everybody is included in the judgement of the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, and without additionally taking the attitude, "...that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..." (vs.19), it is without debate certain that the love of Christ does not constrain us and we regard other people according to their flesh.
John 8:32 (CLT)...
31 Jesus, then, said to the Jews who have believed Him, "If ever you should be remaining in My word, you are truly My disciples,
32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free."
Hebrews 2:9-10 (AV)...
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man
Every elect man..Jesus didnt taste death for the devil and his seed..
that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..." (vs.19),
God did not impute the sins of the world of the elect unto them, because They had been imputed to christ, but the sins of the devil and his children were not imputed unto christ, Just Gods children..
Every elect man..Jesus didnt taste death for the devil and his seed..
B57 - I read what is written
Heb 2:9 that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
...... you seem to be rewriting some of the scriptures based on your interpretations.
Heb 2:9 that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings
Yes, every man is included, Meerkat
Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Yep, can't rewrite the scriptures God does not like that. God bless.
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