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Yes, it is in that verse. The creation includes what is created and people, including the nonelect are creatures of God. God bless.
No one is talking about the elect or the non elect. There are no humans beings AT ALL being referred to in verse 19. NONE-NOT THE ELECT NOR THE NON ELECT.
No one is talking about the elect or the non elect. There are no humans beings AT ALL being referred to in verse 19. NONE-NOT THE ELECT NOR THE NON ELECT.
Yes, human beings are being referred to in the verse, Fundy, because human beings are a part of the creation of God. God created us. We are His creatures, a part of His glorious creation whether you like this or not. God bless.
Quote:
creature/creation =ktisis=what is created, the sum total of what is created
Romans 8 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in *hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (YLT)
*hope=elpis=expectation
James1 17every good giving, and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the lights, with whom is no variation, or shadow of turning; 18having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit of His creatures.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-20-2009 at 05:03 PM..
Yes, human beings are being referred to in the verse, Fundy, because human beings are a part of the creation of God. God created us. We are His creatures, a part of His glorious creation whether you like this or not. God bless.
Well I will let you be with your interpretation and I will stick with many of the thelogians interpretation of verse 19. The men who were actually given the gift of interpretation.
Well you know, Fundy, that many theologians who disagree with you and your theologians were also given the gift of interpretation. Take care and God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-20-2009 at 04:59 PM..
To say that those who reject God’s provision of salvation through His Son will be saved is to belittle the holiness and justice of God and negate the need of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf. God Bless, Lifesigns64
How so lifesigns? Jesus gave His life as a ransom for all and He was sent on a mission to be the Savior of the world. Many believers believe that He will accomplish the mission, that God's purpose for the creation will be accomplished. I believe that God will eventually win all and deliver all, including those who rebel now. Jesus has been made heir of all. To me, that say that God cannot get what He wants and is not able to reach the hardest of hearts belittles His sovereignty, justice, mercy, holiness, and love. God bless.
God calls man to receive Christ with a penitent heart because He loves him: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (Jn. 3:16). Repeated failure to heed God’s continual calls will ultimately lead to man reaching the state of no-return. The wrath of God will then be poured upon him: “Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Because you have forgotten Me and cast Me behind your back, therefore you shall bear the penalty of your lewdness and your harlotry” (Ezekiel 23: 35; Jeremiah 2: 27; 1 Kings 14: 9); “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness” (Rom. 1:18); “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Hebrews 10: 31.
I would prefer your beliefs over mine anyday Shana, but as I read it in the Bible, I see time and time again, that there will be an Eternal separation, punishment, etc. God Bless, Lifesigns64
P.S. We all will have to go before God's judgement seat, and account for all idle words and thoughts, we will not all be forgiven. There will be many of us who will not be rewarded with eternal life with Him. His plan, not Mine.
How so lifesigns? Jesus gave His life as a ransom for all and He was sent on a mission to be the Savior of the world. Many believers believe that He will accomplish the mission, that God's purpose for the creation will be accomplished. I believe that God will eventually win all and deliver all, including those who rebel now. Jesus has been made heir of all. To me, that say that God cannot get what He wants and is not able to reach the hardest of hearts belittles His sovereignty, justice, mercy, holiness, and love. God bless.
And your saying the cross wasn't God's complete plan for salvation that salvation can be obtained by another means and that is totally false according to the Bible!
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God bless.
