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Imagine a world where each Christian just read the bible, using their own brain and "gifts" they lack?
Imagine a world where people are led to believe they lack a gift and are taught and pressured to be someone they are not because someone else said so under that assumption.
Imagine a world where each Christian just read the bible, using their own brain and "gifts" they lack?
I study scripture very hard using basic hermeneutical principals. I subject myself under great teachers who were taught by other great teacher, who were taught by other great teachers and so forth. These are men who were given the gifts of teaching and interpretation as the bible says. I do not have the gift of interpretation so I study hard, learn from teachers and pray for correct discernment/understanding.
Verse 19 is creation, meaning animate and inanimate, except human beings, v 22-23 where "whole creation" and "we ourselves" are contrasted. Of course you are taking it out of context since you say, verse 19 is talking about human beings separate from God's children or vanity? which I have no clue how you came up with that. Our interpretations are directly opposed to one another.
You go on believing what you study and I will go along learning what I am taught since I lack that spiritual gift.
You have yet to address the key point. Why do you keep skipping over verse 20 & 21?
The focus is verse 20 & 21 which are speaking of all creation (including humans) being subjected to vanity, and this same all creation (which still includes humans) being redeemed and joined in glory with the children of God.
Romans 8 (KJV)
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Romans 8 (NLT)
20 Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay.
Imagine a world where each Christian just read the bible, using their own brain and "gifts" they lack?
Imagine a world where people didn't read the bible, but just relied on what other people said. Oh wait - it already happened. It was called the DARK AGES. And people were burned alive because those "other people" said it was OK.
Imagine a world where people didn't read the bible, but just relied on what other people said. Oh wait - it already happened. It was called the DARK AGES. And people were burned alive because those "other people" said it was OK.
Lol...prove it your just repeating what some other person said! people where pursicuted in that period and that was all in vain because some dweeb would come along pervert the reason they were martyred.
Imagine a world where people didn't read the bible, but just relied on what other people said. Oh wait - it already happened. It was called the DARK AGES. And people were burned alive because those "other people" said it was OK.
I didn't even want to respond to this because your reasoning escapes me.
THIS IS THE DARK AGES!, stemming from that logical fallacy you made since I never said, reading was bad? (So if I tell a child to eat their carrots but the child pointed out that another child choaked on a carrot and died so therefore he shouldn't eat his carrots-now carrots are bad for children?)
Implement your philosophy in the world. Let's see how you like a basketball game where everybody follows their own rules? how about getting on the road with other drivers who follow that same philosophy but now in some strange, miraculous way this philosophy that even though it falls flat on its face in everyday use can somehow work in interpreting scripture.....
You were being dishonest in your strawman you built where you neglected to acknowledge the other fundamentals I stated involved in interpreting scripture; 1)praying to the Holy Spirit 2) study 3) subjecting oneself to good teaching...never take what the preacher says at face value, go behind him and see if what he is saying is true. That is how one interprets scripture.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 07-21-2009 at 12:58 PM..
Since the beginning of time man has tried to reveal God unto man. Only God can reveal God unto man. Thanks be to God! The maker of ears can hear and the maker of mouths can speak! Cease from man who's breath is in his nostrils. Isaiah 2:22
The purpose of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers is the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till
Till what?
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;
Reference Ephesians 4:11-16
We really are all of the same substance. We are more united than we realize.
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.? 1 John 1:7
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." 1 John 2:27
Holding on to men's doctrines will prevent us from passing thru the Till stage of our development. Has the knowledge of the Son of God entered into our lives or not? If so, I much rather suggest we listen to Jesus Christ and keep our eyes single upon him. Cease from man who's breath is in his nostrils, only follow the Lamb of God.
Lol...prove it your just repeating what some other person said! people where pursicuted in that period and that was all in vain because some dweeb would come along pervert the reason they were martyred.
Well you can believe whatever you want Thirdparty. Actually I'm not even sure what your point is. You don't think the Catholic church persecuted people in the dark ages?
I didn't even want to respond to this because your reasoning escapes me.
THIS IS THE DARK AGES!, stemming from that logical fallacy you made. (So if I tell a child to eat their carrots but the child pointed out that another child choaked on a carrot and died so therefore he shouldn't eat his carrots-now carrots are bad for children?)
Implement your philosophy in the world. Let's see how you like a basketball game where everybody follows their own rules? how about getting on the road with other drivers who follow that same philosophy but now in some strange, miraculous way this philosophy that even though it falls flat on its face in everyday use can somehow work in interpreting scripture.....
You were being dishonest in your strawman you built where you neglected to acknowledge the other fundamentals I stated involved in interpreting scripture; 1)praying to the Holy Spirit 2) study 3) subjecting oneself to good teaching...never take what the preacher says at face value, go behind him and see if what he is saying is true. That is how one interprets scripture not sitting at home with a Greek and Hebrew lexicon.
Sigh. What are you talking about?!? Children choking on carrots? Its like we are speaking a different language I think. What strawman? Never mind. More confusion of babel I guess. Its ok. I suppose God even has a purpose for this conversation.
I never said we shouldn't pray, study the scriptures, and study what good teachers say. Did I? If I somehow suggested that, I apologize.
What I did suggest is we should also study the scriptures for ourself, and not blindly accept what others say!Study to show thyself approved DOES NOT MEAN blindly parroting whatever the popular theologian of the day says. It means to study, pray for guidance, and yes sometimes even look at the Greek and Hebrew! So I think perhaps we agree there?
Now, you say THIS IS THE DARK AGES. Hmm, I think there is lots of confusion for sure, but I don't think what we have now is the dark ages. If anything we have information overload. This is the opposite of the real dark ages (I'm talking 500 AD-1000 AD or so) when information was suppressed.
Its not that there is a lack of information. The problem now is we have to sift through all the available information and determine what is true.
Your comparison to a basketball game it not exactly a good analogy. The rules of basketball are VERY simple compared to the complexities of scripture.
You seem resigned to the fact that you can't understand Romans 8:20-21 unless some theologian tells you what it means. I'm sorry that is how it is for you. Be well Fundy... keep praying and I will as well.
Well you can believe whatever you want Thirdparty. Actually I'm not even sure what your point is. You don't think the Catholic church persecuted people in the dark ages?
When you respond to some one you should read there post first.
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God only can Reveal God
