Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ah . . . thank you, sparrow . . . you are a literalist. That explains a lot. The misrepresentation of spiritualists in the persons of Melvin, Mayhem and Marvel is part of your problem. I suppose there are people like that who call themselves spiritualists . . . but they are not representative. Spiritualists simply recognize that the scriptures are for spiritual instruction and enlightenment . . . not scientific or archeological or historical or anthropological significance of a worldly nature. They contain such information . . . but only as needed to validate the existence and significance of Jesus. So spiritualists do not get their interpretations from exercise bike experiences or off-the-wall symbolic interpretations of common words. I'm sorry to have bothered you with my views . . . literalists are too detached from reality, IMO . . . but if they lead you to "love of God and each other" it's all good. Peace and be well,
Mystic.
Mystic... why are you so quick to judge me and put me into a neat little category such as "literalist". If I were a "literalist" then I would never have discovered some of God's beautiful truths.
You know what? I think that you and I just cannot have a conversation. Sometimes that just happens between people who are on two very different paths. And that's ok. It's better to recognize it early to fend off much frustration.
I see spiritual and literal. I'm not an either/or type person.
I tend to go through things with a fine tooth comb and see what I can glean from something in the spiritual sense and then take it as far as I can in the spiritual sense. When I go so far that I stumble into emptiness and void... then I know that I've taken something a bit too far. I have much experience with certain schools of thought. And some things sound nice, but really when you look at it, it has little substance and and a lot of confusion. Again... I see spiritual and I see literal.
peace to you as well.
I know we have two different viewpoints, and I am not attacking your viewpoint. I just don't tend to agree with it. No big deal.
I think perhaps people are confused about a physical body. We are not our bodies. This is just an outer shell that constrains us to this physical existence that God put us in. He did not give us bodies that are capable of moving through time or space. We cannot move from one realm to another. We cannot see things in the spiritual realm because of our physical nature. Because of our bodies we are bound by time and space. Our minds can wonder and we can sit and think about places we have been and places we have seen. Our memories can take us to another place and time, but we cannot go there because God made it so that our bodies are bound by time. We cannot jump out of our bodies and travel to another place where our mind might take us. There are limitations to what we can do and where we can go. For instance, we need something to transport our bodies from one location to another. We cannot travel in or through space without the help of manmade vehicles and suits because of the heat, cold and pressure to our bodies. I believe our bodies are only meant for this world. They become sick and die. They are only meant to last for a certain period of time. When it dies, the spirit or power source of who we are goes back to God. When God gives us a new body it will be something different,something wonderful. One than is limitless and last forever. We won`t need this skin and bones body that we have now.
But this is all we know. This is all we are aware of. So we cannot imagine anything different. But we trust the creator to create something wonderful and whatever it is,it will be perfect. We are but the clay. God has a body for us that will be perfect for the plan and purpose he has for us. But one thing I am almost certain of in my mind, it will not be a physical body with skeletal bones,flesh,and blood. Those bodies have limitations. Bones break, skin tissue gets sick,skin cells die, flesh gets scratched and burned etc. We will finally get the body we were made for. A glorified spiritual body!
I guess my words were very unclear. lol.
because I have no problem with what you just said.
I agree with you!
Perhaps it's just a different dimension.
Perhaps a "spiritual" glorified body is one that we cannot even begin to understand. So if people are saying "physical" body, maybe it's a physical body in a sense, but one that is so BEYOND being JUST a physical body. It has properties that no other physical body has. It's a glorified body...
Therefore Jesus' body is not of this world, since it is of a differing dimension. It's not physical.
1) The First heaven :The band of atmosphere surrounding our planet.
1 Kings 14:11
2) The Second heaven:The entire stellar universe. The abode of the angels.
Deuteronomy 4:19
3)The Third Heaven. The Throne room of God. Outside the universe. Far above all other heavens.
Eph. 4:10; 2 Corinthians 12:2-4
And so where is Jesus? Is he in the First Heaven, floating among the clouds somewhere, plainly in sight of anyone with binoculars?
Or is Jesus in the Second Heaven, living on some airless planet orbiting a star in Orion?
Or is Jesus in the Third Heaven, at least 46 billion light years away - far beyond the known boundaries of the observable Universe - completely out of touch with Earth?
All I'm trying to say is that it is absurd to think about a physical resurrection, which is the question this thread poses. Spiritual? Maybe. Physical? Waaaay too many problems with that interpretation.
For some Christians to suppose that their faith rests upon a literal interpretation of physical resurrection is really a sad commentary on their own beliefs.
Therefore Jesus' body is not of this world, since it is of a differing dimension. It's not physical.
Yeah, I think that makes sense with what I'm saying. It's definitely not OF THIS world, however it was able to BE in this world, IN this dimension.
I think what I'm trying to say is that perhaps it is physical but not by this world's standards of "physical". It's beyond that. A physical body in this dimension being much different than a physical body in a differing dimension. I'm saying I don't think that we can quite imagine it.
But I do think that we will still have senses, although far more in tune and what they were always meant to be. I still expect to see, feel, hear, touch, etc. Maybe that will give you more insight into where I'm coming from. I don't know.
1) The First heaven :The band of atmosphere surrounding our planet.
1 Kings 14:11
2) The Second heaven:The entire stellar universe. The abode of the angels.
Deuteronomy 4:19
3)The Third Heaven. The Throne room of God. Outside the universe. Far above all other heavens.
Eph. 4:10; 2 Corinthians 12:2-4
I took the liberty of looking up the scriptures you cite Mike and I just cannot understand how you reached the conclusions about them that you state. I see them much differently and will cite my preferred scriptures regarding three heavens below yours.
1) "Him that dieth of Jeroboam in the city shall the dogs eat; and him that dieth in the field shall the fowls of the air eat: for the Lord hath spoken it." 1 Kings 14: 11
2) "And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven."Deuteronomy 4: 19
3) "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth How that he was caught up into paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."2 Corinthians 12: 2-4
On the subject of three heavens of different degrees of glory, I much prefer to cite the following scriptures:
"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." 1 Corinthians 15: 40-41
"These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.... Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun. And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one." D&C 76: 70,71,78,96
What part of psychikos (natural) and pneumatikos (spiritual) doesn't anyone understand?
Good grief....7 pages later and you are all still hammering this one out? The Greek is plain, and so is the English, and to further help those who haven't got it yet, let's add another verse which may help you along to the meat and marrow of the eschatological characteristics to this:
1 Corinthians 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1 Cor 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
And don't give me that nonsense about having the same body as the Christ resurrected before His ascension..it just doesn't fly in light of all the surmounting evidence from various epistles that the difference is monumental, otherwise, there would be no distinction in the first place. Christ's real body was a sign for unbelievers, and a type of what was to come!...Just as Noah being in the belly of the whale, that was a type for Christ to fulfill, in that is fulfilled by Him, and He was a type for the resurrection of the dead who would be raised as a collective body..>Revelation 11 - Two Witnesses.......blessed is he who believes and hasn't seen me.......John 20:29
And then you have those that really believe this is a human body....
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Is that enough for you....? Good Grief brothers and sisters......read the text..soak it in...eat it...drink it...whatever you do, but don't give me sensational science fiction...that is not what this is!
This is the Holy Word, the Living Testament of the Kingdom...that is within us..Luke 17:21
Last edited by sciotamicks; 09-23-2009 at 10:46 PM..
Definitely.
I think what I was trying to say is somewhat (maybe not quite) along the same lines as what this guy is saying. I was just talking to someone about this very thing the other day.
ok, so I thought I'd post some of my imaginings that I've had in the past. I think it's fun to just let your mind go and wander...
So this is one wild thought I've had:
Quote:
I want to learn everything there is to know about all of the things He created/creates.. because everything that He has created is in some way, a reflection of Him! Perhaps to explore HIM to know HIM is to explore His creation. Like, what if were exploring around and you saw some crazy looking creature, maybe you could sort of become that creature for a little while and experience what it's like to be that creature? Or what if you could just become any ol' thing? Like what if you wanted to know what it would be like to just be a tree? Could you be a tree for awhile, rooted to the ground and reaching for the sky and little birds come and sit on your branches? Then maybe you'd like to see what it's like to be a little bird, all flying around landing on trees. Learning about His vast creation is really learning about HIM. I think about all sorts of weird stuff.
Sometimes, it's good to just let your brain just wander.
He gave us an imagination for a reason. Maybe he gave me a little too much... lol.
I'm sure some folks will say "oh you're being so childish minded.."
or "how unspiritual!!" or "omg! you heretic!!! how could you say such blasphemous things!!!"
Chill guys. I'm just sharing my imagination.
This isn't meant to be all heavy and serious.
Maybe I should write kid's books.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
that I've had in the past. I think it's fun to just let your mind go and wander...
