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I have only you refuse to acknowlge. Time after time you simply ignore the verses that either come before or after. Those people who swear to God are all those who put their trust in him, as other scriptures testify. Not all people reguardless.
Your message is in direct conflict of Jesus', not mine.
I haven't answered the question?........you haven't been listening.
So Isaiah 45:23 is not talking about all people? Really?
What about Romans 14:10-11 when it says all will stand before the judgment seat and then all will bow and confess He is Lord. That's not talking about all people too?
And what about Phil 2:9-11 when it says every creature in heaven and on the earth and under the earth will bow and confess to the Lord. That is not talking about all people too?
And what about the fact that Phil 2:9-11 and Romans 14:11 are direct references to Isaiah 45:23?
I think Romans 8:20 is supposed to read like this: For the creation was subjected to frustration by its own free will, not by the one who created them. God hopes the creation will liberate itself from bondage and decay by accepting the son of God.
Like I said, my mistake. But seriously, lets look at what Romans 8:20 really says again:
[NIV]
Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
[KJV]
Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Verna, twin.spin, how does your view fit at all with these verses?
The creation/creature was subjected to frustration and vanity, not by its own choice! There goes free will out the window. What is vanity? It is sin! Do you understand this verse? It is very important to understand this:
The creator (that's God) subjected the creation (that's us) to vanity (that's sin).
Does that blow your mind? Well if it didn't, the next verse should.
So Isaiah 45:23 is not talking about all people? Really?
What about Romans 14:10-11 when it says all will stand before the judgment seat and then all will bow and confess He is Lord. That's not talking about all people too?
And what about Phil 2:9-11 when it says every creature in heaven and on the earth and under the earth will bow and confess to the Lord. That is not talking about all people too?
And what about the fact that Phil 2:9-11 and Romans 14:11 are direct references to Isaiah 45:23?
Not in the context as you would have it in Isaiah 45:23. Like I said before (and you refuse to listen) God says such when its in the context of comparing the two. What you do is read the first and ignore the rest. One verse later ....the comparison.
Isaiah 45:24
They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.' " these are all who believe All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. these all are who are the unbelievers
Does the second part of that verse need to "blink" for you to read it?
__________________________________________________ _________
Romans 14:10-11 proves nothing about UR. Its only your interpetation\ingnoring other scriptures that places it there. Acknowledging Christ for whom he claimed to be, and the triune God, isn't necessarily being done by all because of faith. The devils acknowledge who Jesus is, but not because of faith in him.
That is what Paul's point is.....the difference is faith.
ONCE AGAIN.....you're taking a verse that is being said, using it indepentently, deliberatly rejecting the other point when its being used in comparision to the believer vs the unbeliever.
verse 23 is the result of unbelief....he is condemned for lack of faith.
Romans 14:22-23
22.....Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. this is the believer (not all people)
23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
__________________________________________________ __________
Phil 2:9-11 proves nothing about UR. Its only your interpetation\ingnoring other scriptures that places it there. Acknowledging Christ for whom he claimed to be, and the triune God, isn't necessarily being done by all because of faith. The devils acknowledge who Jesus is, but not because of faith in him.
ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE TO PROVE that Paul was putting it into the context of believers vs. non-believers....as he calls the non-believers "dogs" Phillipians 3:2
Phillipians 2 is about everybody in front of Jesus...the believers and the unbelievers....all will be saying it, either by faith or (like the kid who is forced to say "uncle"), all of these will have to acknowlege Jesus was right, and they were wrong and have to admit...Jesus is God.
Phillipians 3 is the summary......the comparisons
Unbelievers.........18-19
For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction,
Believers.........20
But our citizenship is in heaven.
"For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction"
Did that answer your charge of not answering....how many times do you need...70 x's 7
One last time from God: many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction"
But our citizenship is in heaven.
Last edited by twin.spin; 09-25-2009 at 01:54 PM..
Not in the context as you would have it in Isaiah 45:23. Like I said before (and you refuse to listen) God says such when its in the context of comparing the two. What you do is read the first and ignore the rest. One verse later ....the comparison.
Isaiah 45:24
They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.' " these are all who believe All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. these all are who are the unbelievers
Does the second part of that verse need to "blink" for you to read it?
__________________________________________________ _________
Romans 14:10-11 proves nothing about UR. Its only your interpetation\ingnoring other scriptures that places it there. Acknowledging Christ for whom he claimed to be, and the triune God, isn't necessarily being done by all because of faith. The devils acknowledge who Jesus is, but not because of faith in him.
That is what Paul's point is.....the difference is faith.
ONCE AGAIN.....you're taking a verse that is being said, using it indepentently, deliberatly rejecting the other point when its being used in comparision to the believer vs the unbeliever.
verse 23 is the result of unbelief....he is condemned for lack of faith.
Romans 14:22-23
22.....Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. this is the believer (not all people)
23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
__________________________________________________ __________
Phil 2:9-11 proves nothing about UR. Its only your interpetation\ingnoring other scriptures that places it there. Acknowledging Christ for whom he claimed to be, and the triune God, isn't necessarily being done by all because of faith. The devils acknowledge who Jesus is, but not because of faith in him.
ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE TO PROVE that Paul was putting it into the context of believers vs. non-believers....as he calls the non-believers "dogs" Phillipians 3:2
Phillipians 2 is about everybody in front of Jesus...the believers and the unbelievers....all will be saying it, either by faith or by like the kid who is forced to say "uncle" , all of these will have to acknowlege Jesus was right, they were wrong and admit...Jesus is God.
Phillipians 3 is the summary......the comparisons
Unbelievers.........18-19
For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction,
Believers.........20
But our citizenship is in heaven.
"For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction"
Did that answer your charge of not answering....how many times do you need...70 x's 7
One last time from God: many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction"
But our citizenship is in heaven.
Get over it.
Hey Twin. "Spin" ... I'll leave your answers to those verses alone ... for the moment ... However i am curious to hear your spin on ...
Colossians 1:15-20 (King James Version)
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Not in the context as you would have it in Isaiah 45:23. Like I said before (and you refuse to listen) When God says such its in the context of comparision the two. What you do is read the first and ignore the rest. One verse later ....the comparison.
Isaiah 45:24
They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
are righteousness and strength.' " these are all who believe All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. these all are who are the unbelievers
Does the second part of that verse need to "blink" for you to read it?
Nothing needs to blink here. I just don't see:
"will come to him and be put to shame" = "ETERNAL TORMENT IN FRONT OF OR AWAY FROM THE PRESENCE OF GOD"
Maybe I missed that part somewhere? Or maybe you are reading a special bible that has all the decoding where certain phrases such as "shame" are understood to mean "eternal hell"?!?!?!?
Quote:
__________________________________________________ _________
Romans 14:10-11 proves nothing about UR. Its only your interpetation\ingnoring other scriptures that places it there. Acknowledging Christ for whom he claimed to be, and who the triune God isn't necessarily being done by all because of faith. The devils acknowledge who Jesus is, but not because of faith in him.
That is what Paul's point is.....the difference is faith.
ONCE AGAIN.....you're taking a verse that is being said, using it indepentently, deliberatly rejecting the other point when its being used in comparision to the believer vs the unbeliever.
verse 23 is the result of unbelief....he is condemned for lack of faith.
Romans 14:22-23
22.....Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. this is the believer (not all people)
23 But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Neither does this prove ET. But it does prove that all people bow and confess to the Lord.
Phil 2:9-11 proves nothing about UR. Its only your interpetation\ingnoring other scriptures that places it there. Acknowledging Christ for whom he claimed to be, and who the triune God isn't necessarily being done by all because of faith. The devils acknowledge who Jesus is, but not because of faith in him.
ONCE AGAIN, I HAVE TO PROVE that Paul was putting it into the context of believers vs. non-believers....as he calls the non-believers "dogs" Phillipians 3:2
Phillipians 2 is about everybody in front of Jesus...the believers and the unbelievers....all will be saying it, either by faith or by like the kid who is forced to say "uncle" , all of these will have to acknowlege Jesus was right, they were wrong and admit...Jesus is God.
Phillipians 3 is the summary......the comparisons
Unbelievers.........18-19
For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction,
Believers.........20
But our citizenship is in heaven.
"For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction"
Did that answer your charge of not answering....how many times do you need...70 x's 7
One last time from God: many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction"
But our citizenship is in heaven.
Get over it.
Destruction is never the end. Saul was destroyed. Paul is the new creation.
You are reading your beliefs into the text if you think Phil 2:9-11 is some sort of forced confession "Uncle". LOL. Look up the word for "confess". It means:
1) to confess 2) to profess a) acknowledge openly and joyfully b) to one's honour: to celebrate, give praise to c) to profess that one will do something, to promise, agree, engage
This is what is happening here. All people are confessing, professing, acknowledging openly and joyfully, celebrating, honouring, and praising God, and agreeing and promising to follow him.
And somehow you interpret this as meaning a whole bunch of people say "UNCLE"?!??!?
Perhaps it is you who needs to "get over it". Do you see unbelievers as "dogs" or just as people who are not saved yet?
Like I said, my mistake. But seriously, lets look at what Romans 8:20 really says again:
[NIV]
Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
[KJV]
Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Verna, twin.spin, how does your view fit at all with these verses?
The creation/creature was subjected to frustration and vanity, not by its own choice! There goes free will out the window. What is vanity? It is sin! Do you understand this verse? It is very important to understand this:
The creator (that's God) subjected the creation (that's us) to vanity (that's sin).
Does that blow your mind? Well if it didn't, the next verse should.
No it doesn't....but if I address this, you'll by pass earlier posts like they never existed...like the verses that condemns the unbeliever
Perhaps it is you who needs to "get over it". Do you see unbelievers as "dogs" or just as people who are not saved yet?
And you don't believe the author of those words?
Not all will bow because of a confessing faith. But all will bow....a difference that seperates the sheep and goats (dog's)
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Please explain?
"created all things" = Jesus is God reconcile all things = Jesus paid for all the sins of the world,( that's called objective justification), and you have the choice to reject it.
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him" John 3:36
Reject Christ and you will meet an angry God. That is not my "spin", as Paul said with tears...........many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction" .... in this case "destruction" is forever. When destroyed by God, you're unable to recover.
P.S. mocking.....getting to that level.... must be desperation?
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