Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
so according to you thread title you equalize universalists with evildoers?
...I was waiting for this one sven, I'm surprised it took so long for someone to accuse me of this as well...but I knew someone would, eventually.
Sure enough...here it is!
The very reason I separated the two is because I DO NOT consider them equal! There are too many different beliefs...as many as there are people it seems...I honestly try not to put everyone in the same bundle...there is no way one can...too many different beliefs going around, it's crazy...
I believe some UR'ers, (depending on what they believe), are only mistaken in their belief that ALL will be saved...but they, (some), hold to some of the same truths, in other areas, as one does who believes in ET or Annil....MUCH DIFFERENT than an outright, unsaved evildoer...although if one believes they can enter the Kingdom of God in sin, that they will somehow be saved no matter what...it has yet to be proven by Scripture, as far as I am concerned.
.although if one believes they can enter the Kingdom of God in sin, that they will somehow be saved no matter what...it has yet to be proven by Scripture, as far as I am concerned.
Well, one day perhaps, people will quit using this argument when it does not apply. If you prop your objection up on this point, it fails.
All men being saved through Christ is not saying that one can enter the kingdom in sin.
Oh, but Gee. God just wishes this, it is a very strong desire.
So for God to wish is fine , but when someone who believes in UR and wishes in the same way God does they are called wishy washy .
You just could not make it up .
If this doesn't convince you they make words mean what they want them to say nothing will.
Twisting God's Word makes you a false teacher, which is sin.
Originally Posted by Verna Perry Sin does not glorify God!!! He specifically states He hates it, and it will not enter into His Kingdom...period!
Her true colors are her passion and love to do as God wishes. She is leading others OUT of the fire, but it isn't her, but the Spirit through her. She doesn't and won't take any credit for this.
Don't people understand that it is just these types of bible thumping, pharasaic and dogmatic attitudes that makes people (Christians and Nonchristians alike) think we are a bunch of cultish lunatics? Do you not realize this?
Oh hey...do you want to know about Jesus...He can give you salvation...but if you don't believe in Him, you're gonna burn alive forever and ever in eternal conscious torment!!!
Is this the way we want to spread the Gospel? Is this the Gospel Jesus gave us? Is this the Gospel the Apostles spread? Is beating somone over the head with this kind of message going to win anyone to Christ? This does nothing but breeds fear in those who are called to follow God and it makes us look like a bunch of fanatical religious idiots. This type of message puts a yoke of bondage and fear on a believer, the fear oozes from the people who minister this way. This is something Jesus has freed us from. We are supposed to be spreading the "Love" of Christ, telling people what He did for them...this is the Gospel message.
I do not believe in "Eternal Conscious Torment" or "Hell"...the teaching is not biblical. The knowledge is out there for one to learn this, if they are willing. The knowledge of the origins of this teaching are out there for one to learn, if they are willing. After many years of study I can see where people get these views because you could make a case for all of them, Annihilation, ET & UR...but for anyone to be so dogmatic and boastful as to think that they know it all, that their view is the only view to follow and that anyone who teaches anything different is a sinner and is going to Hell...is a prideful and boastful fool. It must give them great pleasure while they puff up their chests knowing that they are the only ones who have the TRUTH. The Pharisees of Jesus day thought they had it in the bag too and we all know what happened to them.
No one, absolutely no one knows the whole truth...and anyone who says they do is nothing but a liar. One has what they think is the truth...but is it the real truth. To take biblical subjects that can be debated and won on both sides and proclaim them as "God's absolute truth" is foolish and prideful...these doctrinal subjects do not affect a person's salvation in any way and only cause more division between believers. I don't know anyone's heart and neither does anyone else...I present to people what I know, all the views I know...it is up to each one of us to study and show their selves approved because in the end, I am only responsible for me and no one else.
The self righteous cannot bear the thought that God as reconciled the world to Himself(Christ died for sinners) .They cannot bear the thought that simple faith in His wonderous grace is simply good enough,
Wrong! The thoughts that I cannot bear is for someone to think that they do not have to be changed from their sinful nature, and mature into their Christ-like nature, BY CHOICE...for someone to think there is nothing they need to do before they die...like repent,<<<and I'm not talking repent over and over and over again...I'm talking about repenting once and for all time, being baptized by the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ...and when temptation by trials and tests come along, being enabled, through the Spirit that is within you, to overcome comitting the act of sin! THIS IS WHAT I CANNOT BEAR TO THINK OF...because the Word of God says so...over and over and over again! THIS IS WHERE HIS GRACE WORKS WITHIN THE SINNER! THIS IS WHAT CHRIST DIED FOR!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
they think they don't sin in their own eyes...
...that's a lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
...and yet they see sin in in everybody else's life.
...the sin is thinking God overlooks your sin and allows you into His Kingdom while bathed in sin!...THAT'S THE SIN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
They are skillful in deceit wherby they will say "my righteousness is as filthy rags" but their posts deny they believe it when they boast in their own self righteousness and condemn others whose lives do not match up to their own.
...another lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
They will quote:
"I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me."Psalm 103 : 3
Yet they continually look at sin in the lives of others and preach about it, thus making the word of God of no effect.
They have a closet full of NT doctrines but do not have a clue about infinite grace and the effects of Calvary.
...you are wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Any seeker of God whether you believe in ET or not do not be moved or condemned by these posts that are legalistic nonsense.God is for you and not against you , He is working in your life even though what you may see in your flesh you do not like. He loves you so much He will complete that which He started in you , because He's the author and finisher of your faith.
..this faith that He is the author and finisher of is the faith one has in His EVERY WORD...NOT just the parts that sound good to them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
The self righteous have already cleaned their acts up outwardly(whitewash tombs full of dead mens's bones) but nothing yet has happened on the inside yet .
...You have no idea what has happened to me inside pcamps...NO IDEA whatsoever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Do not be intimidated by them , do not judge their ability to be able to quote scriptures as a sign that they are spiritual, nothing can be further from the truth.
They love digging up the bibles verses about sin and the wicked and then try shoving it down our threats
Never do they compile a list of bible verses referencing the love and grace of God . This fact should tell you all you need to know about them.
...ALL the verses I have quoted come from the very mouth of God...divinely inspired...and they are ALL the expression of His love and grace...they are just not received well by you pcamps...they don't make you feel good...they convict the heart...
Last edited by Verna Perry; 09-25-2009 at 09:04 AM..
You love talking about death,dead and being banished away from the presence of God
No, I don't...but as many times as I see printed on this forum ALL will eventually be saved, is as many times as you may see ALL will not be saved...becasuse ALL will not receive and repent!
Oh hey...do you want to know about Jesus...He can give you salvation...but if you don't believe in Him, you're gonna burn alive forever and ever in eternal conscious torment!!!
The key is to share our lives and share the good news with the understanding that one day all will believe.
To treat people with that understanding is very difficult and painful.
No, I don't...but as many times as I see printed on this forum ALL will eventually be saved, is as many times as you may see ALL will not be saved...becasuse ALL will not receive and repent!
That is an interpretation, one that does not have to be believed when I can see that a God, greater than what we can conceive sent his son on a mission to be Saviour of the world.
I am unconvinced that Jesus fails in his mission, but then I guess it could be argued concerning what failure actually is.
While as humans we concede to the limitations of our power if we do not accomplish a goal 100%, but I dare say that the most tenacious human beings will strive their whole lives to try.
What makes God willing to accept anything but a 100% success rate?
So it is your belief that because we teach the good news that Jesus saves sinners and we don't teach ET...this is a sin and we do not have salvation?
No, it is NOT my belief that you do not have salvation because you teach that Jesus saves sinners...He does, He saves the sinner who turns from their sinful ways, repents, and is baptized in the indwelling Spirit of Christ...which ENABLES them to then go forth as an OVERCOMER of sin...to be found holy and blameless as He is holy...leaving our sinful nature and instead holding firm to our Christ-like nature. The problem comes when you teach just the portions you like, and you don't teach the WHOLE TRUTH. If you are going to teach something...don't leave out what you don't like...don't leave out what may be difficult or uncomfortable...teach the WHOLE TRUTH...or don't teach at all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy
Even though we teach the same things you do, except ET...this will make us lose our salvation?
We don't teach all the same things Christy...especially when you get to the parts when you leave out any responsibility that the sinner may have in working out their salvation with fear and trembling...righteous fear of God will make you leave your sin behind...not make excuses for them.
And as far as ET, I do not necessarily believe in ET...I tend to lean to DEATH...DEAD...SEPARATE FROM GOD FOREVER. This is His Word in truth.
.they are just not received well by you pcamps...they don't make you feel good...they convict the heart...
LOL
I feel real good about the fact that God loves the world and i beyond what ever we could imagine(it's impossible not to feel good about it , just a glimpse of it is amazing) , and i feel real good that He is my Shepherd that He leads me beside still water and that His rod and staff comforts me , He doesn't beat,condemn and judge me with them.
I feel good about the fact that God as called me to love and see the lost how He sees them, with love and compassion , so much so He went to Calvary for all mankind.
I glory in His love for the world and not in the fall of mankind.
How lovely on the mountains are the feet of Him who brings good news ,proclaiming peace and announcing news of happiness . Hallelujah !!!!!!!!!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
