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Well SisterKat......Your god and its divine love, peace, is not the God of the Scripture......the Mighty God of all Creation! So therefore I will never know it or desire it, let alone pray to it.
The god you so talk about and using his new age philosophy is nothing but the father of lies who blinds this world in its sin of unbelief from the truth of God. This god you speak so highly of is a deceptive god, creating and giving those the desire to walk in rebellion, against God's written word.
This is what Jesus warned us about. And yes, he comes in a false light, trying to duplicate, manifest the light of Jesus Christ! Yet, those who are born again, born of the Spirit of God can discern this false light and its lies that tries to manifest itself to be the truth of God's written word.
This is what Jesus warned us about. And yes, he comes in a false light, trying to duplicate, manifest the light of Jesus Christ! Yet, those who are born again, born of the Spirit of God can discern this false light and its lies that tries to manifest itself to be the truth of God's written word.
The deceiver you fear has already deceived us when humankind was even more ignorant than some insist on remaining today. He has twisted and corrupted Jesus' message and example back under the veil of ignorance that exists from reading the written word of the OT. He has ALREADY succeeded in this corruption and deceit for over 2000+years now. He has believers convinced that to believe in God as LOVE is the error . . .(and not the evil Jehovah of FEAR described by our primitive ancestors). This is the deception that was warned against . . . good will be proclaimed evil and evil good. Did you think he would wait 2000+ years to do so??
We are saved only by the truth "written in our hearts" and the guidance of the "mind of Christ" in His Holy Spirit within us all. I have read your post carefully, Latte . . . and its sincerity is clear. But you are arguing against strawmen that do NOT exist. No sincere Christian believes we won't die. We all will. But we will be reborn as Spirit. No one is trying to justify remaining in sin or not repenting of sin. We are Christians and that is a necessary part of being one. You just believe that without some heinous evil eternal torturer to fear . . . people will remain in sin. It isn't true.
Please just look into your heart and what is "written there" . . . and ask yourself with the Holy Spirit's guidance . . . WWJD . . . NOT Jehovah. We are CHRISTians. Be honest and true to what is "written in the "fleshy tables of the heart" . . . NOT what you have been told, taught and learned about what has been "written in ink ". . . especially under the veil of ignorance in the OT.
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When a born again, Spirit filled child of God speaks against false teaching it will be negative to those who walks blindly in their darkness because the true light of Christ exposes the deeds of those who walks in false teaching and they will not be in agreement with those who walk in the Spirit and yet those who walk in this darkness will continue to walk in defiance, rebelling against God, speaking their father's lies.
You are born of God (adopted . . . as in begotten as a spiritual "embryo". . . but not yet reborn as Spirit until our physical death). Spirits are like the wind . . . we are NOT in these flesh and bone bodies. No sincere Christian is walking in defiance and rebelling against God . . . and certainly NOT speaking lies.
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This false teaching of this thread.....and its imaginations is nothing but the natural mind which can not receive the things of God....but they will try their best to reason it away with the delusion that God has given them over too. Why? Because they have exchanged the truth God's righteousness for the lies of the enemy of their soul.....
The "reasoning away and delusion" is in those who try to reconcile an evil, heinous God with our loving Jesus Christ . . . making all sorts of excuses for what our inner souls know does not make sense given the unconditional love Jesus had for us all.
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So if I were you....I would really think your position through....in that god you worship....because it is not the God of truth written in the word....the Bible !!! And I do know you do not believe in the Bible !!
I cannot speak for SisterKat . . . but I believe in the bible "rightly and spiritually discerned" . . . NOT read in the literal primitive ignorance of our savage ancestors. More importantly . . . I believe in the God of truth "written in our hearts" and revealed by the "mind of Christ" through His Holy Spirit within us all 1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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And He the Holy Spirit is the One that those who are following after false teaching are lacking Him in their lives, you can read it in their post, the Spirit of God is not there....because He will not lead anyone away from that which is written in the word.
::Sigh:: So sad. The Holy Spirit will not lead anyone away from the truth of God "written in our hearts" . . . NOT "written in ink."
Notice that this is the OT... AND this passage is about physical life and death not after life and after death. It's about warning people to live a holy life... Have you ever met a drug addict and told them that if they didn't quit using they would surely DIE. or did you tell them that they are destined for hell?
They will surely die that is scriptural.. it is NOT scriptural that they are destined for hell. So in telling someone they are going to hell you are bearing false witness. Wouldn't you say?
Everyone who dies in their sin pays the wages for sin... DEATH
Let me know if you find the passage that states you should warn people they will burn forever in hell if they don't turn from their wicked ways.
The bible is consistent. If you live your life in sin you will physically die. What is after that?
Spin it all you want, but the Word of God endures forever. There is a hell of torment for those who die in their sins.
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. - Matthew 18:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. - Revelation 21:8
Standing before God I will state: I knew you were the God of love and infinite compassion for my fellow man.
Will you state: What about HELL? I worked hard to be good and get to heaven so why are they here when they did no work at all?
Similar to the parable:
The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard Matt. 20:1-16“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire men to work in his vineyard. He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.
“About the third hour he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ So they went.
“He went out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour and did the same thing. About the eleventh hour he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’
“‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.
“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’
“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’
“The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’
“But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
“So the last will be first, and the first will be last.â€
If God is such a tyrant that he will not forgive as you state then I guess Jesus did not represent God because here we see that all the workers were equal even though the amount of work they did was different. Because God's will is that all come to him, whether in the first hour or the eleventh.
So your perception of a loving but wrathful God goes against this scripture and others.
Let me ask you this: If there is no hell will you feel the way the first hour workers felt? or will you rejoice that no one will be in a burning torture chamber?
Also you state the sin of unbelief yet scripture states various times that unbelief is highly rectifiable. Saul/Paul killed many in his unbelief yet God targeted him for a good reason.. Those who sin the most need the most grace and are truly a show of God's love and grace.
Throwing unbelievers in hell does nothing to show God's grace and love... Think about it.
Yes, God is a God of Love and His love will not go against His truth and that love will bring forth His justice against those who continue to defy, rebel in their deeds and who love their darkness of sin rather then His Holy righteousness.....and have exchange His righteousness for the lies...
It is ones words coming from one heart that one has tried to put into my mouth and even used the very word of God against a child of God, twisting it and accusing them before God that I only believe in a god of wrath......right there by that lie before God proves whom one is serving, the father of lies because Satan does nothing but lie against the truth and stands before God accusing the His children who stand firm and are sealed in His Spirit of truth !!
So it is you who stands before God who knows my heart completely and He sees this lie.....that one is trying to accuse me of and one day He will show you katjonjj......!!!
Yes, God is a God of Love and His love will not go against His truth and that love will bring forth His justice against those who continue to defy, rebel in their deeds and who love their darkness of sin rather then His Holy righteousness.....and have exchange His righteousness for the lies...
There are several instances in the Bible where God's wrath is demonstrated on the people based on religious beliefs and race. I don't see a God of love doing what these instances in the Bible (and likely in Jewish and Islamic scriptures as well) suggest.
Why would God punish a child, and harshly? Or, the many innocents who happen to have their own faith (or not)? If it was okay then, it should be okay to wage religious warfare today. Right?
There are several instances in the Bible where God's wrath is demonstrated on the people based on religious beliefs and race.
No God does not demonstrate His wrath based on diversity because one is white and the other darker or they rather not be cosher. The so called religious beliefs was human sacrifice. These people were guilty of idolatry among other sins. God demonstrates His wrath on those who break His laws and use these law breakers as a warning to others to repent. What do you think a person who sacrifices their children should get?
The people back then were well aware of the Jewish God.
Spin it all you want, but the Word of God endures forever. There is a hell of torment for those who die in their sins.
There is no need to spin it. You presented a verse claiming that it was hell that was warned against.. That passage did not warn of hell but of death.
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Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. - Matthew 18:8
Notice that it is better for thee to enter into LIFE maimed than being whole and cast into everlasting fire. Contrasting the two... Life versus everlasting fire while alive.. right?
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But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. - Revelation 21:8
Notice the passage in chapter 14 of Revelation:
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
What do you think that means?
Are the lamb and the holy angels also in hell? Presence means they are in the same place doesn't it?
No God does not demonstrate His wrath based on diversity because one is white and the other darker or they rather not be cosher. The so called religious beliefs was human sacrifice. These people were guilty of idolatry among other sins. God demonstrates His wrath on those who break His laws and use these law breakers as a warning to others to repent. What do you think a person who sacrifices their children should get?
The people back then were well aware of the Jewish God.
A loving God can not ask for human sacrifice or condone killing, even with those who He would disagree with, much less the children that were involved as well.
It is extremely hypocritical to lay down laws "Thou Shall Not Kill" and, moments later, order someone to go ahead and ask for murder of an entire populace because of religious and ethnic differences. The Bible is full of such stories, and I've quoted quite a few verses to that effect, nothing representative of a loving God.
What I see in those stories is the same kind of persecution we see even in modern times (Nazi Germany), and not so modern times (persecution of the Mennonites by Catholic authorities in the 16th century, and later of Protestants, persecution of French Protestants by Catholics followed by persecution of Catholics by French Protestants, and so on). Any of them could use "God" for an excuse. In the end it is what it is... hate crime.
Yes, God is a God of Love and His love will not go against His truth and that love will bring forth His justice against those who continue to defy, rebel in their deeds and who love their darkness of sin rather then His Holy righteousness.....and have exchange His righteousness for the lies...
It is ones words coming from one heart that one has tried to put into my mouth and even used the very word of God against a child of God, twisting it and accusing them before God that I only believe in a god of wrath......right there by that lie before God proves whom one is serving, the father of lies because Satan does nothing but lie against the truth and stands before God accusing the His children who stand firm and are sealed in His Spirit of truth !!
So it is you who stands before God who knows my heart completely and He sees this lie.....that one is trying to accuse me of and one day He will show you katjonjj......!!!
You can believe as you wish. I am stating how it looks to ME.
Do you not believe that there will be more people in hell than in heaven?
Doesn't that mean that God's wrath is more prevalent than his Mercy in your view?
If God is all powerful then couldn't he snap his fingers and make all men clean enough to enter his presence? After all it is his presence. What is stopping him from doing that if he wills that all men come to him? You seem to think, IMO, that this is too great a task for him or that he does not wish to go against human will even though he condemns that will as "of the flesh" right?
So which is it? Does God make it so that his will is carried out and all men come to him however that may be, or does God simply want only those who revere him of their own power?
Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
ungodly or asebes in the greek is from a (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of sebomai; irreverent, i.e. (by extension) impious or wicked -- ungodly (man).
Who is it that Christ died for? The unbeliever. THE WICKED
John 12:31 "Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
The lord says that he will draw all men to himself. Do you believe that?
A loving God can not ask for human sacrifice or condone killing, even with those who He would disagree with, much less the children that were involved as well.
It is extremely hypocritical to lay down laws "Thou Shall Not Kill" and, moments later, order someone to go ahead and ask for murder of an entire populace because of religious and ethnic differences. The Bible is full of such stories, and I've quoted quite a few verses to that effect.
You are misdirected in your thinking. We don't have the right to "murder", not kill but God does because He is holy and JUST. To murder is to take someone's life unjustly God is just in killing us so it is not murder. The wages of sin is death and because we are sinners we all deserve death. Too many people ask the wrong question, How can God kill so many people? the true question is how can God allow so many of us to live?
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 02-11-2010 at 04:23 PM..
You are mistaken in your thinking. We don't have the right to "murder", not kill but God does because He is holy and JUST. The wages of sin is death and because we are sinners we all deserve death. Too many people ask the wrong question, How can God kill so many people? the true question is how can God allow so many of us to live?
And where does your thinking come from? I doubt you had a vision of God, telling you everything He means. You're drawing conclusions from the same source I am... Bible.
Even Hitler thought (and wrote down) that he was acting according to God's will:
" I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator" - Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2
Do you believe he was? Were his acts justified along the lines?
BTW, I don't believe God ordered those killings. Not in the Old Testament, not in Mein Kempf.
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