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When you zoom out above this area you can see the number surface lot areas in between that evident. It's not wall to wall at every block like the French Quarter. Once you go one building past the Jewelry Traders sign it drops into an open area.
scaled @ 200ft
LA: Parking lots, gaps in between with less infill not as compact.
NO: No Parking lots, attached buildings, with more infilled and more compact
It's not urban wall to wall like Chicago or Manhattan by any means. It doesn't run consistently.
examples
Chicago
New Orleans also has taller old multi story buildings close together once you get closer towards the CBD. The 2nd shows one of the buildings. I will have to dig up more of my photos to show a better example.
Going from this
To this
When you zoom out above this area you can see the number surface lot areas in between that evident. It's not wall to wall at every block like the French Quarter. Once you go one building past the Jewelry Traders sign it drops into an open area.
scaled @ 200ft
LA: Parking lots, gaps in between with less infill not as compact.
NO: No Parking lots, attached buildings, with more infilled and more compact
It's not urban wall to wall like Chicago or Manhattan by any means. It doesn't run consistently.
examples
Chicago
New Orleans also has taller old multi story buildings close together once you get closer towards the CBD. The 2nd shows one of the buildings. I will have to dig up more of my photos to show a better example.
Going from this
To this
sorry bro you got beaten at your own game, just gracefully bow away and have a happy thanksgiving.
Does anyone else find it ironic that someone who posts nonstop images of the French Quarter is insinuating that L.A. posters are cherry-picking? The FQ is amazing. If the city had a contiguous 5 sq mile area that resembled it, you'd have a MUCH stronger argument. But that's just a small segment of the city. It would be like me trying to pass off the Historic Core as a typical L.A. streetscape: Google Maps Street View
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
scaled @ 200 ft
Now let's look above South Hill and West 7th from the first link you posted. Like I said it's not as consistent. Look at those parking lots and gaps. I have yet to see anywhere in LA the size of the French Quarter without surface parking lots non stop wall to wall development.
It's pretty obvious the French Quarter is more dense all the way around with no gaps or hardly any parking lots. It's complete wall to wall density. LA just doesn't have that. You would have to go to SF.
Happy thanksgiving from Massachusetts!!
Last edited by urbanologist; 11-22-2012 at 03:06 PM..
I started off responding to a definition I thought everyone had about "urban fabric." I went back and checked the OP's link just to make sure after reading your post, and there was a picture of "walkable" versus "car centric." Nothing about appearance though appearance has a role to play, it just doesn't have the entire role to play. I have been consistent that the older core of NOLA has been very urban, in fact I specified at the beginning that it's a type of urban neighborhood not replicated in either Miami or Los Angeles. But the problem arises when you leave that core. Uptown has some nice housing stock, but I think you even agree that it's not exactly an urban neighborhood but more of a mix (inner suburban).
I just don't understand how you could call Uptown an "inner suburb" and then also call the area you live in in Houston "inner urban" as well. There are obvious differences. Uptown mostly consist of 100 year old homes and is apart of the older core. Most of them are multi-family and tightly packed together. There are many business corridors and corner stores spread throughout most of the area. That would fit my defintion of an urban neighborhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombieExtraordinaire
Here's the thing, in NOLA I have walked great distances and was surrounded by housing stock. In LA, that doesn't really happen. There'd be times in NOLA I'd become hungry while walking, plug into my smart phone "food" and my nearest results are half a mile to sometimes a mile away. Again, that doesn't really happen in LA.
But all this has been said, I just chimed in because I thought my home city LA was being unfairly "suburbanized" on CD as people tend to do, especially when they're unfamiliar with it. Also people tend to do the reverse with NOLA, "urbanize" it because as tourists (or just looking at pictures) they tend to only focus on the older core. Either way, I'd like to move to NOLA someday hopefully when I have enough money to live in or near that older core.
Well half a mile is like a 9 minute walk, it is not very far. But either way a person can be sorrounded by businesses but that definetly does not mean their neighborhood is urban. Also many of the older neighborhoods in New Orleans actually do have businesses nearby. I also originally chimed into your post since I thought New Orleans was being unfairly viewed.
There's a reason why L.A. has more high density tracts than any city outside of New York.
In population yes but in development density not even close. Los Angeles is more suburban compared to some of the cities out East. It's the largest sprawling developed area in the nation with suburban style characteristics. It lacks the kind of street level urban density you can find in places like Boston, Charleston, Brooklyn, Jersey City, New Orleans, St Louis, Philly etc.. SF is the only city in you're state that has that sidewalk and narrow street wall to wall density on both sides with more vibrant pedestrian activity. LA is just one big suburb with a larger population. Only two of the links you posted like South Hill and Newport Beach would be urban but the rest is too suburban compared to what you find out East. Now if you were to pull all that development towards the center of LA and become more vertical like NYC then you would have less surface parking lots, wide boulevards and stripmalls. LA is just too horizontal. I have yet to see any area about the same size as the French Quarter in LA with buildings wall to wall with narrow streets lined with shops and pubs without no parking lots. The areas outside of South Hill and West 7th in downtown LA have lots of surface parking lots lacking infill. So far you have failed to show an area of LA the size of the French Quarter with nearly 100% infill wall to wall.
Is there any concept more delusional than this so-called NE urbanity? NYC is exceptional, the rest of the region running around thinking its Seoul or Tokyo needs a bit of a reality check. Oh, and the guy who told you attached housing is an objective criteria for measuring urbanity? It's one of the biggest lies ever, and you bought it hook, line, and sinker. You should go after that guy, what an a**hole.
Charleston, SC? Here's what it looks like a couple of miles from its CBD:
Is there any concept more delusional than this so-called NE urbanity? NYC is exceptional, the rest of the region running around thinking its Seoul or Tokyo needs a bit of a reality check. Oh, and the guy who told you attached housing is an objective criteria for measuring urbanity? It's one of the biggest lies ever, and you bought it hook, line, and sinker. You should go after that guy, what an a**hole.
Based on what I've seen from my travels I've learned that a person's definition of urbanity varies depending on where they live especially if they are native or have been living in those areas for a long time. What may be more urban to someone living in LA may not be urban to someone who live in Jersey City or St Louis. The degree of attached housing, narrow walkable streets and sidewalks lined with the most amount of amenities may rank higher with that person living in Boston compared to cities where the automobile is king. Cities (regardless of size) that are more pedestrian friendly with more emphasis designed around the people may be more appealing to someone who is from say Boston or New Orleans (French Quarter). As for Seoul and Tokyo I use to live in Japan, btw and made no mention about the comparison of those places. I can't speak for anyone else but from my experience only NYC could make that argument.
Quote:
Charleston, SC? Here's what it looks like a couple of miles from its CBD:
Charleston is a much older city established in 1670. It was a city when LA was was nothing more than undeveloped wilderness. LA doesn't have any urban neighborhood from the colonial period. LA is a much bigger city but lacks the older urban dense style found in places like Charleston or Boston. LA's urban fabric primarily evolved around the automobile. Now had LA been established in 1630 or 1670 or 1718 it could of had it's own Beacon Hill or French Quarter. It was established in 1781 but it wasn't until much later that it developed. SF however did.
This is the old dense urban fabric designed around people I'm talking about. Here are some examples I shot while in these cities. LA doesn't really have this type of dense more urban pedestrian friendly characteristic.
Charleston has a population density under 900 ppsm. According to walkscore, it is considered a car-dependent city (46).
It's urban the way Mayberry is urban. Tell Aunt Bee she better have my bean pies or Ima kick her ass.
You actually posted the walking score for the city as a whole which include the newer auto developed areas outside the main peninsula. What you failed to mention is that the lower peninsula of Charleston's 29401 actually has a walkscore 84 which is pretty good for a city it's size and would make Aunt Bee very proud. As for NC, the Mayberry you're referring to is a fictional town based on Andy Griffith's (RIP) hometown of Mount Airy. I use to live just south of there in Winston Salem. It's nothing like old Charleston by any stretch.
You actually posted the walking score for the city as a whole which include the newer auto developed areas outside the main peninsula. What you failed to mention is that the lower peninsula of Charleston's 29401 actually has a walkscore 84 which is pretty good for a city it's size and would make Aunt Bee very proud. As for NC, the Mayberry you're referring to is a fictional town based on Andy Griffith's (RIP) hometown of Mount Airy. I use to live just south of there in Winston Salem. It's nothing like old Charleston by any stretch.
Keep in mind that the area walkscore considers "DTLA" covers at least 3 sq miles, at least 3-4x the size of the French Quarter (which scores a 94). Los Angeles's CBD is a lot larger than people wish.
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