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The vibe I got was a clean, spacious, large downtown with lots of towering skyscrapers, yet not so much interesting on a street level outside Michigan Ave. And downtown Chicago got quiet really fast...like at least 6 pm.
Michigan Ave. is really more of a tourist area than anything. And the Loop does get really quiet by about that time, because that's where so many 9-5 business people work. There always seems to be WAY more happening in, say, the river North area and a bit to its west than the Loop.
San Francisco has a good big city feel, but in no way does it feel "big city" like Philadelphia. Philadelphia's big city east coast feel can not be duplicated by San Francisco.
We appear to be on the same wave length. I saw those earlier but wasnt sure how to compare places since they are all different scales.
Anyway, I tried to connect PA+NJ+DE to scale with CA and came up with this extremely unprofessional homemade map(LOL):
The NJ and Delaware maps show the second darkest hue as 5,000-9,999 and the third darkest hue as 1,000-4,999. I think they did that for small states.
Cool maps, I dont know how to modify the images so nice work.
The other thing to me that jumps out in the Philly image is the two very large white blobs with basically zero population and how large they are relative to many other cities. These areas dramtically bring down the actual density of the city overall (In the SE the airport, port and huge refinery complex and in the NE the large airport) maybe 1/6th of the total land area if removed would place the density closer to 14-15K for the city overall.
San Francisco has a good big city feel, but in no way does it feel "big city" like Philadelphia. Philadelphia's big city east coast feel can not be duplicated by San Francisco.
What are you basing that on? This is exactly the kind of comment people who support San Francisco respond to, and then Philly supporters bash them for "making SF something it's not".
Anyone who's been to both knows they are very comparable. Many feel SF has more of a big city feel, because it has greater structural and population density, more bustling sidewalks, less surface lots and the downtown/inner neighborhoods area is huge. I've always felt SF has more of a vibrant, big city feel than Philly, especially in the core. Several east coasters who visited SF for the first time admitted that as well.
That's not to say I wouldn't accept an argument from someone who thinks Philly has more of a big city feel, but to say "in no way" does it feel big city like Philly is ridiculous.
Again, SF sustains this level of density for long stretches, outside of the core financial district - I just don't see that in Philly:
What are you basing that on? This is exactly the kind of comment people who support San Francisco respond to, and then Philly supporters bash them for "making SF something it's not".
Anyone who's been to both knows they are very comparable. Many feel SF has more of a big city feel, because it has greater structural and population density, more bustling sidewalks, less surface lots and the downtown/inner neighborhoods area is huge. I've always felt SF has more of a vibrant, big city feel than Philly, especially in the core. Several east coasters who visited SF for the first time admitted that as well.
That's not to say I wouldn't accept an argument from someone who thinks Philly has more of a big city feel, but to say "in no way" does it feel big city like Philly is ridiculous.
Again, SF sustains this level of density for long stretches - I just don't see that in Philly:
Personally I concur. To suggest that either is runaway or that either does not have a Big City feel, especially in the cores is silly. To me if anything it is the composition of the older NE cities outside the core that would have more of a difference. Their cores are both substantial and good arguments can be made that SF is more compressed in the core in this discussion. To me Boston/Philly/SF all share in many ways from this perspectives in these attributes or even the so-called "Big City" feel. To me these three cities actually have the most core city similarities on feel scale etc whereas NYC is just on another level of scale and Chicago, larger than these cities, has a slightly different feel but no doubt big city feel.
Personally I concur. To suggest that either is runaway or that either does not have a Big City feel, especially in the cores is silly. To me if anything it is the composition of the older NE cities outside the core that would have more of a difference. Their cores are both substantial and good arguments can be made that SF is more compressed in the core in this discussion. To me Boston/Philly/SF all share in many ways from this perspectives in these attributes or even the so-called "Big City" feel. To me these three cities actually have the most core city similarities on feel scale etc whereas NYC is just on another level of scale and Chicago, larger than these cities, has a slightly different feel but no doubt big city feel.
I would agree with you about most West Coast cities, but SF is the exception - it has a VERY strong urban fabric outside of its core. Neighborhoods like the Mission District, Lower and Upper Haight, Western Addition, Fillmore, Marina, Duboce Triangle, Castro, Hayes Valley, Polk Street, Outer SOMA, etc. - the building heights may drop a bit but these are still very dense, urban, bustling areas. Pound for pound, I'd say SF sustains its density and urbanity just as well as any east coast city besides NYC. (Now, Oakland and Berkeley certainly have less consistant urban fabrics, but so do the outer areas of many of the larger East Coast cities.)
However, your point about composition of cities outside of the core is spot on for other West Coast cities, like Seattle, Portland, or Vancouver. All have strong, vibrant, bustling downtowns, but - despite some nodes of activity - the drop-off is significant once you leave the core. Seattle is particularly dramatic, as the downtown and adjacent neighborhoods (a decent-sized area) feel quite urban, but it quickly turns into primarily single-family home areas with pockets of commercial activity. Some of these pockets - like Ballard, the University District, etc. - are substantial, but the overall urban fabric is very spotty once you leave the core.
So much of it looks like this (I know, this is Beverly Hills - same difference) and this type of density and urban environment covers vast terrain in LA.
I was gonna post something similar. I was gonna say from what I've seen on Google Maps, and from what I have heard from family who lives out in LA and San Diego, LA and SD and the surrounding areas look vibrant as hell. VERY underrated in the Vibrancy department. It seems like they can go toe to toe with Northeastern cities in the vibrancy department.
so what?? Houston is bigger than DC and it certainly does not feel bigger. Why would DFW having a bigger population immediately equate to a bigger feel.
Philly feels bigger than anything in the South. just because DFW has a big population doesn't mean it feels bigger than Philly, DC, SF or Boston.
That is just ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae713
But does it feel bigger than Philly? No, and that's the whole point.
I don't think he understands what people are talking about and is just listing MSA numbers. MSA numbers by themselves are useless in gauging areas. He needs to look at the development patterns and see that having a bunch of smaller towns under the umbrella of a metro doesn't often translate into a big city feel.
Philly is the Dense Center of a metro of 6M. Dallas is one half the medium density center of a metro.
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