Most vibrant urban core (outside the big 6)? (living, best, better)
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Unless you run commuter rail at high frequencies, which is certainly physically possible and common in Europe and Asia.
That's tied to land use. Without the density to support high frequencies, you won't get them. It's also tied to jobs being centralized around the rail transit system without transfers.
Also, commuter rail is so much more expensive to go the same distance as Metro travels. That would kill ridership. It's only $5.75 to go from Gaithersburg to downtown DC which is 30 miles and even farther to Arlington VA for the same $5.75.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 04-14-2014 at 12:55 PM..
Actually the Septa commuter/regional rail has sort of european set-up (s-bahn) today with the connections and interlining - sadly is under-utilized on the whole - it even acts a as sort of subway (in fact much of the main West Market CBD is linked directly with tunnels many times directly into lobbys to the stations moreso than even are the subways) in the core with all lines underground in the core and connected to all other major rail pt forms in the hub
SEPTA kind of has it--its big issue in terms of Regional Rail is that the large, uh, most-shared trunk line in Center City is quite short and doubled for its entire length by the Market-Frankford Line which makes it less useful than S-Bahn (or RER or whatever equivalent) in some other cities. It can become great for some of the stations with interlined services elsewhere.
That's tied to land use. Without the density to support high frequencies, you won't get them. It's also tied to jobs being centralized around the rail transit system without transfers.
Also, commuter rail so much more expensive to go the same distance as Metro travels. That would kill ridership. It's only $5.75 to go from Gaithersburg to DC which is 20 miles.
Though that's a chicken and egg thing, right? You can build to try to create greater density or use higher frequencies as an amenity to try to induce greater population growth/job density. It's basically what DC did with the metro. Certainly there are other countries with large expanses of land such as Australia and to some degree Canada that aren't truly land-constrained which have created huge commuter rail systems with high frequencies at interlined stations (and in the case of Australian cities, have been used as the backbone of their transit systems).
Though that's a chicken and egg thing, right? You can build to try to create greater density or use higher frequencies as an amenity to try to induce greater population growth/job density. It's basically what DC did with the metro. Certainly there are other countries with large expanses of land such as Australia and to some degree Canada that aren't truly land-constrained which have created huge commuter rail systems with high frequencies at interlined stations (and in the case of Australian cities, have been used as the backbone of their transit systems).
True, however, they don't have the love affair with the car we have in America. They also don't have our poor people stigma to mass transit which is understandable because they don't have the racial history problem we have in America.
There is only one reason DC does TOD so well. Metro lines were built around massive suburban office parks and strip malls that were ripe for redevelopment. Had it been built through dense row-house or streetcar suburbs, there would be no room for highrises in a half mile buffer zone around stations.
The transportation planners who made metro had no idea they were creating a system that would change the face of the region for the next 200 years. They thought it was just going to be a commuter rail line and people would drive there. They had no idea that the region would be building 10,000+ housing units in highrises around metro stations.
Honestly, if people knew this then, the NIMBYS would have killed the whole project. Good thing they can't see in the future lol...
True, however, they don't have the love affair with the car we have in America. They also don't have our poor people stigma to mass transit which is understandable because they don't have the racial history problem we have in America.
There is only one reason DC does TOD so well. Metro lines were built around massive suburban office parks and strip malls that were ripe for redevelopment. Had it been built through dense row-house or streetcar suburbs, there would be no room for highrises in a half mile buffer zone around stations.
The transportation planners who made metro had no idea they were creating a system that would change the face of the region for the next 200 years. They thought it was just going to be a commuter rail line and people would drive there. They had no idea that the region would be building 10,000+ housing units in highrises around metro stations.
Honestly, if people knew this then, the NIMBYS would have killed the whole project. Good thing they can't see in the future lol...
Of the 5.2 million people living in the DC suburbs, how many of them are living in TOD near rail stations?
True, however, they don't have the love affair with the car we have in America. They also don't have our poor people stigma to mass transit which is understandable because they don't have the racial history problem we have in America.
There is only one reason DC does TOD so well. Metro lines were built around massive suburban office parks and strip malls that were ripe for redevelopment. Had it been built through dense row-house or streetcar suburbs, there would be no room for highrises in a half mile buffer zone around stations.
The transportation planners who made metro had no idea they were creating a system that would change the face of the region for the next 200 years. They thought it was just going to be a commuter rail line and people would drive there. They had no idea that the region would be building 10,000+ housing units in highrises around metro stations.
Honestly, if people knew this then, the NIMBYS would have killed the whole project. Good thing they can't see in the future lol...
Australia certainly has a great love affair with the car, but without the same racial history problem (the Aboriginals they did have a problem with were pretty much decimated and their immigration reform happened fairly recently when opinions towards people not from Europe had shifted considerably).
Doesn't DC also have height restrictions and a large amount of reserved greenspace within the city which puts huge developmental pressures on the area? Either way, I don't think other areas were precluded from following suit. I'm fuzzy on the history here, but didn't DC and its surroundings vote to put priority on building out their system and diverted it from even more highway construction?
I believe prevailing attitudes in LA and several other cities are taking them down a similar path that DC went.
Speaking of commuter rail, LA's commuter rail line is now implementing through running tracks. It might be the pathway to increasing frequencies (currently limited by the need to do a dosey doe at Union Station) and changing commuter patterns--as well as greater development for the areas near commuter rail stations. Just another component of why LA should probably be included in the top 6, if not now, then fairly soon.
Of the 5.2 million people living in the DC suburbs, how many of them are living in TOD near rail stations?
Once again, I know this is hard for many people to wrap their head around, however, this is for future growth. Thats why you don't understand streetcars. It's not for people living on the routes. It's for all the high-rises that will be built along the route because of the streetcar. The next 20 years of growth in the region will take place along Metro. The counties have, the first time, made metro corridors a priority like Arlington did 20 years ago.
Once again, I know this is hard for many people to wrap their head around, however, this is for future growth. Thats why you don't understand streetcars. It's not for people living on the routes. It's for all the high-rises that will be built along the route because of the streetcar. The next 20 years of growth in the region will take place along Metro. The counties have, the first time, made metro corridors a priority like Arlington did 20 years ago.
I was just curious about how many live in TOD now. How many do you think will be living in TOD in the next 10 years?
There is only one reason DC does TOD so well. Metro lines were built around massive suburban office parks and strip malls that were ripe for redevelopment. Had it been built through dense row-house or streetcar suburbs, there would be no room for highrises in a half mile buffer zone around stations.
Rowhouses are denser than most of what actually exist around DC Metro stations outside of DC. As for high rises, how many new high rises actually exists around DC subway stations. High rise TOD seems to be more of a Canadian thing.
Rowhouses are denser than most of what actually exist around DC Metro stations outside of DC. As for high rises, how many new high rises actually exists around DC subway stations. High rise TOD seems to be more of a Canadian thing.
Huh? The Rosslyn-Ballston corridor has census tracts in the 40k-50k people per square mile range and that will only increase with what is being built there. So does Silver Spring Md. In 20 years, all metro lines will be like that. Have you seen what is being built around the DC metro stations? Almost all growth will be funneled to metro stations by law here in the region. That's how Arlington Va got that way. Row house neighborhoods don't reach 40k-50k density unless they have high-rises mixed in which means they aren't rowhouse neighborhoods.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 04-14-2014 at 03:06 PM..
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