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LA is a suburb. Tacky, ugly, and full of illegals.
I have to partially agree with this. Besides the beaches/coastal parts of LA, the actual "city" of LA (housing, downtown area, numerous criss-crossing highways etc) doesn't really look attractive to me much.
Location: Montreal (closer to more/higher populated metros like Toronto, NYC, Boston, Philly etc). And I'd rather encounter snowstorms, than earthquakes. Climate: Los Angeles. Scenery/Architecture: Montreal by far. Los Angeles isn't attractive IMO besides the coastal parts. Quality of life: Montreal. Crime: Montreal. Public transportation: Montreal by far. Shopping: Los Angeles. Universities: Los Angeles. Entertainment/Things to see and do: Montreal. Diversity: Los Angeles. Economy: Los Angeles. (?) Culture: Montreal Food: Los Angeles has a wider variety. History: Montreal
The realities of the Canadian economy according to you which you profess to be the end all and know all just because you went to university in Canada and in one part of it..
As I said before, a lot of goods can be found at around comparable prices in Canada as the U.S for day to day things. Where we pay inflated prices in relation are cigarettes, alcohol, gas (Taxes and having said that there is less inequality in Canada so more active redistribution of wealth.) and American chain stores. For example it is cheaper to shop at No Frills for groceries than Walmart yet there are no No Frills, Food Basics, Urban Planets in the U.S.. There are discount stores here and even clothing stores not to be found in the U.S that offer value pricing for quality wares so there are affordable options. If price is really an option we have Value Villiage, Dollarama and now even dollar tree and tons of less know competitors - heck I can get a can of Tuna at these places for 88c but you and Botticelli would say a can of Tuna costs 2 dollars in Canada - well yes for some brands but others 88c - that's not exactly grossly overpriced for a can of Tuna.. Is 3.99 grossly overpriced for 4L of milk? How about a Dollar for a Loaf of bread? How about 2.50 for a big Hot Dog from a street Vendor? Sure there are comparable stores/places in the U.S with similar prices - maybe a bit less I dunno - but value pricing for many day to day items exist here too but you'd never see either you or Botticelli naming them either because you don't want to, don't know of them or you yourselves are being disingenuous about day to day costs.. Whenever I go into such details (ie very similar pricing for exact same Tablet in Canada as the U.S you deflect)..
Same thing for affordable restaurants - I can go to a plethora of restaurants and get food for next to nothing because I live in a large city with lots of competition and Montreal is probably no different.. I live in an apartment smack dab in the middle of Toronto and pay 1050 bucks a month utilities included - sure I could find a cheaper apartment in Timmins but i'd be in Timmins! Anyway, what I pay is not bad to live in the city centre of a major N.A city but I could even find more affordable apartments outside the DT core and at the end of the day my housing costs is about 20 percent of my net income and even less related to gross. So there are always affordable options and as I said, we get things for our higher taxes that you guys don't! Not my problem that you and Botticelli don't know where to shop and don't know where jobs are in Canada.. I got an Associate Degree and make really good money so not sure what you mean about lack of jobs.. If I invested my education costs in a useless Univ Degree that isn't more relevant to the job market perhaps i'd feel the same way but I was smart about the course I took relative to the market in which I live.
If you think that is spinning the truth than so be it but I'm sorry, you and Botticelli always always talk in extreme terms when talking about Canada and if any parties are spinning the truth I think its you guys. The truth is costs vary in both places depending on where you live and the job situation is also very different depending on where you live..but what has happened and can't be denied is that Canadian Median class incomes have risen over the last decade relative the U.S as a whole and this has nothing to do with housing and that is something you can't deny! That has nothing to do with paper wealth - these are REAL incomes. So yes on the whole the U.S is cheaper because we pay more for certain goods but we also pay comparable prices for many many day to day things as well and for the umpteenth time - we do get more collectively across the social stratification for our higher taxes!
Housing is getting pricey in Toronto and Vancouver that is for sure and a big reason is a HUGE immigrant population with money to buy these places and in Toronto it is because of that and Geographic reasons related to surrounding farmlands - so ultimately the market will dictate housing costs based on location. Developers in Toronto are now building more affordable housing to meet the growing demand for it - more reasonably priced condo's and townhome communities for example but yeah - living in high demand high density cities will come at a cost as is the case in the U.S but the days of living in sprawling large lot, big houses in Toronto are over unless you want to pay a premium.. we are simply too dense and too geographically contained to support a market that existed over a decade ago. With all that said we can cherry pick specific places to bolster a claim ie Vancouver vs Seattle as you have but what about the job market in other places like Charleston WV or New Orleans and a plethora of other places - they exist and you can't will em away.
As for Americans not paying attention to Canada.... where exactly did I say that and what context? Do you think I go to bed at night worrying about the United States? I like the country and we are integrated economies and allies and yes the media in the U.S doesn't pay attention to Canada as Canadian media pays attention to the U.S but this doesn't bother me - it is a reflection of the populace. There are a billion topics about Quebec separation in the Canada section and asking questions is one thing but saying Quebecers are treated like second class citizens in the Canada forum imo is stirring the pot and far from being simply inquisitive. I could do the same in the U.S forums about a lot of topics but Id prefer to ask questions than level my own brand of judgement as a foreigner.. Same with you, you went to University in one part of Canada and think you are an expert on the country and all the nuances of all its people, its economy, its value system and almost always I see you underscoring the negative - especially if it isn't about Quebec and in relation to English Canada.
Montreal is clearly winning the poll. Montreal is by far more urban and walkable just like NYC, Toronto and San Francisco while LA is more spread out like a giant suburb. We could all agree that Los Angeles is very beautiful with the palm trees, oceans and mountains, as well as the entertainment and many other things; however, Montreal is more of a true city, still very diverse, European feel, cosmopolitan, higher quality of life for low and middle income, lower unemployment rate, virtually zero poverty, virtually zero problems with illegals, and its location close to east coast mega cities and Europe adds into it. Four seasons is something that many people also prefer. Montreal is truly unique, beautiful and amazing!
Montreal sure is snowy and cold in winter, but summers are typically hot and humid so there is a true and real summer heat. I love four seasons! I find LA's weather beautiful but boring especially the lack of rain in summer.
I've been looking at this debate unfold and have to chime in.
I am from Vancouver, and have briefly lived in Southern California and now live outside of Washington DC. I agree that the standard of living is lower in Canada. I dont think this is deniable. When you offer all the ways to make up to get around the expensive cost of living, you are indirectly admitting that the standard of living is not the same. Americans dont jump through these hoops to try deperately to reach the same living standard... Plus you are listing ways to get around it that compromise quality and ease of access. I know firsthand that Americans live better on the same money. Im living it right now. Ive been there denying this but its just the facts. Have you lived in both countries? I have. In Vancouver people from my generation cant make ends meet because housing eats up most of our income. Many of my friends moved to Calgary, Edmonton, or got lucky and went south (like me). You need alot more money in Canada to live the same lifestyle and the wages against husing and cost of living doesnt make up for the difference. Neither does the supposedly "free" healthcare or slightly lower university fees (and I also know firsthand they are only SLIGHTLY lower usually except for a minority of instances). It just doesnt make up for the difference. I wish it did because I would love to see me cousins and grandparents and other family still in Canada be able to to better.
I am from the #3 city in the entire country of Canada and couldnt expect to ever own a home or live a US lifestyle. No jobs, terrible wages, oh and then eveen if you get those things you spend it all to live in a shoebox. Do you think anyone in Chicago (the US #3 city) faces these problems? Nope! Americans would be complaining badly if they were in the financial situation even of Torontonians. I went from a shoebox condo for 4 people to a house with a big yard and a pool and a basement and extra guestrooms when I moved to the US. How can someone logically say that the first situation is better? There is nothing about my situation in Vancouver that was better than my situation in California or here whatsoever. We were making similar income. So dont tell me Canada isnt expensive. I hate hearing that because its really offensive to me to hear to manage their money better when its just not a fair expectation. Its not a matter of managing money, the US economy is just better. I know because Ive lived in both not because of some new study that doesnt take into account cost of housing or cost of living into that income. On a level we like to compete with the US (some are obessed with this) so I think it is had to accept this. The first step to fixing the problem is admitting that there is one!
…and yet all measurement done on " standard of living " put Canada and the U.S. extremely close. Quality of life however and liveable cities Canada always trumps the U.S. It's also interesting to note that in those Quality of life lists, the top countries are those that pay the most taxes.
Certainly real estate is expensive in Vancouver, but to compare it to the states you have to compare it with cities in the states that are comparable. Just painting all of Canada by a few places isn't fair. Real estate in Quebec and Nova Scotia for example is much cheaper.
I don't jump through hoops to achieve a so called " US lifestyle ", not sure what you even mean by that. I don't cross border shop, I pay my taxes and live a very good life in a country and a city that rates extremely high. Can everyone live in Vancouver, no. Can anyone live in the area, yes. Can everyone live in the centre of Manhattan? or Paris?
It seems to irk people that Vancouver rates as one of the best places to live but somehow should be as cheap as some backwoods place.
If I were to compare living in the US to Canada, I would compare where I live now, with where I would live in the U.S. I would choose San Francisco, or New York city. Guess what? My lifestyle would change. I would be poorer, live in a smaller place etc. My grocery bill would not be much cheaper since I with the way food is produced in the U.S. BGH in dairy, bleached chickens etc I would be buying organic…which is the same price I pay in Canada for our regular dairy which does not include BGH or bleached chickens which is illegal.
I have friends in California, and had family there as well, also in Tennessee. Their standard of living is not higher even though they make the same as I do. Their quality of life seems fine for them. However I wouldn't change where I live with them for anything.
The US economy, high and lows that are much more extreme than in Canada. 2008 taught us that.
The actual city is the best part. I lived around the country and imo LA has some of the most beautiful and unique neighborhoods in N.A. And the mediterranean climate can't be beat, which makes the city filled with outdoor activity year around. Is it a suburb? Not hardly. Is it big? Most definately. Montreal is a lovely city. Just to visit. Never to live though.
The actual city is the best part. I lived around the country and imo LA has some of the most beautiful and unique neighborhoods in N.A. And the mediterranean climate can't be beat, which makes the city filled with outdoor activity year around. Is it a suburb? Not hardly. Is it big? Most definately. Montreal is a lovely city. Just to visit. Never to live though.
Montreal is a lovely city. Just to visit. Never to live though.
How many years did you live in Montreal exactly? I've had/have many friends and family who lived/live there, and they all say it's a great place to live.
I lived most of my life in the east so yes its the weather and Montreal's location. LA's location on the Pacific is the ultimate location for me. I never said I lived in Montreal.
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Americans dont jump through these hoops to try deperately to reach the same living standard... Plus you are listing ways to get around it that compromise quality and ease of access. I know firsthand that Americans live better on the same money. Im living it right now. Ive been there denying this but its just the facts. Have you lived in both countries? I have. In Vancouver people from my generation cant make ends meet because housing eats up most of our income. Many of my friends moved to Calgary, Edmonton, or got lucky and went south (like me). You need alot more money in Canada to live the same lifestyle and the wages against husing and cost of living doesnt make up for the difference. 
Do you think anyone in Chicago (the US #3 city) faces these problems? Nope! Americans would be complaining badly if they were in the financial situation even of Torontonians. I went from a shoebox condo for 4 people to a house with a big yard and a pool and a basement and extra guestrooms when I moved to the US. How can someone logically say that the first situation is better? 
