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Great Link and info- I wonder what the most recent median total income by family type is for Los Angeles... I'm sure the top 10 percent in L.A leave the top 10 percent in Montreal in the dust - but the great equalizer is probably the average joe family in both places and I wouldn't be surprised it the average joe family in Montreal is doing better in income than L.A.
Median House Price
Los Angeles - $448,900
Montreal - $264,000
Median Household income
Los Angeles - $58,300
Montreal - $56,300
Right, so the 'median home' in the US refers to a 4-bd/2.5bth single family home. So not every household is going to be looking to buy a house that big or that expensive. And by the way, the average family income in the Los Angeles Metro Area where both spouses work is $129,000.
Furthermore, people make it happen in cities like Los Angeles because they are willing to pay whatever the cost to live there, just like every other premium city.
Right, so the 'median home' in the US refers to a 4-bd/2.5bth single family home. So not every household is going to be looking to buy a house that big or that expensive. And by the way, the average family income in the Los Angeles Metro Area where both spouses work is $129,000.
Where is that data from?
How could the average family income for a two-income household be well over twice the amounts listed for the average family or houseshold income?
I'm not saying his number is true cuz I don't know, but it is entirely possible from a demographic standpoint. The two numbers have no affect on each other (well it could in a specific situation, but it doesn't automatically have to as there is the potential for different variables).
How could the average family income for a two-income household be well over twice the amounts listed for the average family or houseshold income?
Yeah it would be nice to see some meaningful Data instead of speculation and chest thumping. Louis XVI posted the most credible stat you can find for Montreal.
On paper the Canadian middle class is the richest in the world right now. On paper. Housing prices are grossly inflated. This means that a regular home in rural northern Montana is going to be worth much less than an equally rural home across the border in Alberta. The homes can be exactly the same in all their offerings but the owner of the home in Alberta will be 'richer' from their inflated housing prices. Add on to this the fact that everything is much more expensive and your richer Canadian middle class walks away feeling poorer. Canada is sitting on one of the worlds greatest a housing bubbles and wages unfortunately have not kept up with prices.
That's exactly what I often say to dispel the misunderstanding that Canadians are "wealthier than Americans". The majority of Canadians' wealth is tied to their house, which is extremely high compared with American cities.
In Toronto, housing price has increased by 8-10% for a good 15 years, every single year except a dip in 2009. last month's sales data show average detached home is worth a whopping $943k. I don't think any American city is that expensive outside New York and San Francisco, both with much higher income. And Toronto is not the most expensive, there is Vancouver, where the middle class spends something like 70% of their income just on housing, if they are lucky enough to be able to afford one. Yes, their paper wealth is higher than Americans if housing price is included, but people are left with a few bucks in their pocket at the end of the months. Housing price in any large, medium, or small city in Canada is at least 20% more than a city of similar size in the US - usually with much worse climate, and our interest on mortgage is not tax-deductible.
Traveling is a luxury thing to do because flight ticket is so expensive. While it is not uncommon to fly from LA to New York for under $300 or even $250 return, fare between Toronto and Vancouver is almost never below $550, mostly above $600. An Ontario assembled car is 15% more expensive in Toronto than in Honolulu.
In terms of salary, in major cities such as NYC, CHicago, LA and the Bay Area, it is very common for a 30 year old with a master's degree and 5 years experience to make 100k or 120k. In Toronto, you need to be on the Director's level to match that, which usually means 10-15 years experience. Wages in Vancouver is pathetic, if you are lucky to find a job. Montreal is even lower.
Canadian middle class is richer. RIGHT. Just wait for this 15 year old housing bubble to burst. How is it sustainable to have $940k housing price when most people make $50-80k? We are not New York or San Fran with an endless supply of high income earners. In comparison, Chicago, a similar sized city with equally bad weather, is probably 40% cheaper, if not more. The price is so high that people have to move to increasingly smaller condos. 20 years ago a one bedroom condo would have 600-700sf, now it is normally under 450-500sf. We have bachelor units at 315sf and 2b2b units with 690sf of space because people simply can't afford larger condos.
I am not pulling things out of my ass. I have lived in LA and now live in Toronto.
You do realize the worlds richest middle class designation was based on Median Incomes after tax and has nothing to do with housing right? So it has A LOT more to do with just paper value of rising real estate values. Fact of the matter is the Canadian Middle Class has been gaining on the American Middle Class for over a decade.
While I agree general day to day things are more expensive in Canada but am I hearing you right that they are 50 percent more.. Nonsensical! Where did you shop in Canada - Inuvik? Generally speaking on average Canadians pay about 20 percent more for retail goods than Americans. Does that add up well sure but don't forget Canadians pay less for things like Healthcare, Education and get things like paid maternal/paternal leave for a year etc. In addition to what I said before, we make slightly more than Americans in after tax income for the median middle class earner so the difference is minimal at best on the whole. Plus I can always strategically shop for things across the border easier than you can come up and enjoy cheaper healthcare and education. Right now my Ibuprofen, hair spray, gel, shampoo, body wash and most other household goods were purchased in Buffalo and quite frankly - McD's isn't that much cheaper in the U.S than here anymore....
Right on time! The same tired arguments on every thread with even the most minor criticism of anything in Canada. Economic, political, societal, you name it. Aren't you going to add that Canada is also a multicultural utopia? There was a time when I bought these arguments, but people find out first hand they are either exagerrated or just bs. I can't count the number of times I've been defensively told "it's not that much more expensive". It is, I've been there and done that, so I don't buy that defense anymore. Those extra prices add up fast. Thats why more Canadians immigrate to the US each year (out of a much, much, smaller population) than Americans emigrate north, and thats why immigrants overwhelingly prefer to immigrate to the US and use Canada as a stepping stone! Going to Canada for the culture is one thing, a matter of preference, but there is no economic argument for being in Canada, with the exception of particular circumstances such as being offered a well paying job in the Albertan fields. If you make 100k in America as a rule you need to make at least 140 in Canada to live the same lifestyle, not even factoring in the highway robbery that is housing prices. Its a tough pill to swallow.
I'm not saying his number is true cuz I don't know, but it is entirely possible from a demographic standpoint. The two numbers have no affect on each other (well it could in a specific situation, but it doesn't automatically have to as there is the potential for different variables).
It would basically mean though that there's a very small number of two-income households if it's that different from the average household income(which sounds strange since there's obviously a decent amount of two-income households these days).
[quote=botticelli;35126833]That's exactly what I often say to dispel the misunderstanding that Canadians are "wealthier than Americans". The majority of Canadians' wealth is tied to their house, which is extremely high compared with American cities.
In Toronto, housing price has increased by 8-10% for a good 15 years, every single year except a dip in 2009. last month's sales data show average detached home is worth a whopping $943k. I don't think any American city is that expensive outside New York and San Francisco, both with much higher income. And Toronto is not the most expensive, there is Vancouver, where the middle class spends something like 70% of their income just on housing, if they are lucky enough to be able to afford one. Yes, their paper wealth is higher than Americans if housing price is included, but people are left with a few bucks in their pocket at the end of the months. Housing price in any large, medium, or small city in Canada is at least 20% more than a city of similar size in the US - usually with much worse climate, and our interest on mortgage is not tax-deductible.
Last edited by JMT; 06-06-2014 at 10:29 PM..
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