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What I'm curious about is how come none of the local culture developed in DC ever sort of spread out very far (or am I wrong about that?). DC was a fairly large city when it went through massive growth in the first half of the 20th century and actually became more populous than SF by the 1940 census, so it seems something might have taken off.
-Few people are from the region. It has doubled in size since 1970. Thus, there isn't really a local culture.
-To the extent it does exist, it's concentrated in the African American community, and most know little about it.
I don't know if that qualifies as iconic or if any of that has much traction outside of the US.
DC is only known for the seat of govt and a few structures and a few landmarks but really that's it. Otoh, ask someone what people in DC are known for and even most Americans would have very little to say because DC doesnt evoke the sharply defined, iconic characteristics that SF does, overflowingly at that.
As I said, only New Yorkers and Angelenos are as stereotyped as San Franciscans, and that is a powerful commentary on SF's powerful image on the whole.
-Few people are from the region. It has doubled in size since 1970. Thus, there isn't really a local culture.
-To the extent it does exist, it's concentrated in the African American community, and most know little about it.
Though the Bay Area population outside of SF and Oakland wasn't particularly large until after the mid 20th century as well.
Local culture concentrated in the African-African community makes sense, though some cultural innovations from various African American communities elsewhere seem to crossover into the mainstream pretty easily.
DC is only known for the seat of govt and a few structures and a few landmarks but really that's it. Otoh, ask someone what people in DC are known for and even most Americans would have very little to say because DC doesnt evoke the sharply defined, iconic characteristics that SF does, overflowingly at that.
As I said, only New Yorkers and Angelenos are as stereotyped as San Franciscans, and that is a powerful commentary on SF's powerful image on the whole.
I think most Americans would talk about politicians and politics and lobbyists, etc. which makes a lot of sense. Though again, I see your point when it comes to the domestic crowd. Internationally, most of these are a wash.
Though the Bay Area population outside of SF and Oakland wasn't particularly large until after the mid 20th century as well.
The DC area is even more transient and transplant-dominated than the Bay Area. Only Miami has a higher percentage of U.S. born residents who were born in a completely different region of the country.
This Post article puts it best:
Quote:
Sidney W. Mintz, a Johns Hopkins University anthropologist who has written extensively about slavery and about food, says: “I guess every city is unique, but Washington is unique in unique ways. ... It was for so very long barely a city at all — more like a place to store paper after world-shaking decisions were made.”
Local culture concentrated in the African-African community makes sense, though some cultural innovations from various African American communities elsewhere seem to crossover into the mainstream pretty easily.
Well, a lot of the White people in the DC area don't know much about the local Black culture, so I wouldn't expect people anywhere else to know much about it. It is sort of under the radar and hidden in plain view as is much of African American life and culture.
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Originally Posted by Deluusions
Sorry but SF is not recognizable as Paris or London. They're not even on the same level..... DC has more iconic structures than SF and this is a fact. More people recognize the white house than the golden gate bridge.
Agreed, but beyond that I believe the "domestic cultural impact" of SF has been a little bit over stated here. Internationally SF's influence is probably arguably more impactful than domestically. The average American couldn't determine a SF accent for example, or the San Francisco style of dress, or SF slang word that is unique to that city. Yes there have been other ways SF has influenced America through music etc, but it's not as American identifiable culturally as let's say a Boston or Philadelphia. SF's Americanness is no more iconic than Seattle or Las Vegas. (Which is still iconic btw)
Last edited by the resident09; 02-05-2015 at 07:12 PM..
Agreed, but beyond that I believe the "domestic cultural impact" of SF has been a little bit over stated here. Internationally SF's influence is probably arguably more impactful than domestically. The average American couldn't determine a SF accent for example, or the San Francisco style of dress, or SF slang word that is unique to that city. Yes there have been other ways SF has influenced America through music etc, but it's not as American identifiable culturally as let's say a Boston or Philadelphia. SF's Americanness is no more iconic than Seattle or Las Vegas. (Which is still iconic btw)
^^^Most Americans wouldn't know a Philadelphia accent from a St. Louis one either. SF also probably has more of a style than you think, too. Its climate is really well known (foggy, cool, and damp) so it definitely has a unique style that caters to that and has developed over time. If you were to line up a group of people from NYC, from SF, from Miami, from Chicago, and from TX, I personally would be able to tell them apart and where they're from. From Philly or Boston? Not as distinguishable when it comes to dress, well, maybe Boston because there is a New England look. From DC? Surprisingly I think it has a dress, and I think its dress is quite similar to Atlanta's (at least on the white collar side), and I only know that "style" because of experience in the two cities, but it's not a really "distinguishable" style.
Many major American clothing brands hail from SF, and many of those have commonality. SF carries with it CA denim history/importance (Levi's and many many other major brands of denim). SF is home to both North Face and Marmot, and these brands REALLY are the common style in the city. More boutiquey versions like Marine Layer have sprouted and even spread to other cities, but the down vest is THE quintessential SF look. O'Neill. Gap. Jansport. I'll repeat: Levi's and Gap. Doesn't get more Americana than those brands.
You can bring up food, too. SF has a lot of contributions (not to mention both William Sonoma and Sur La Table as they relate to food retail).
You did bring up music. That's a long list.
Basically, SF has contributed way more than its fair share to American culture, and DC really has not.
Just looking at SF/Bay Area companies - they are very fitting for the stereotype that people have for the Bay Area. There IS a large and identifiable culture, a large and identifiable cityscape, a unique history, yada yada yada.
Apparel Gap
North Face
Marmot
Mountain Hardwear
O'Neill
Jansport
Goorin Bros hats (shared with Pittsburgh)...again SF has a certain old world style about it which is why Goorin Bros is still relevant and expanding today! SF helps define fashion trends, and it does so under the radar.
There are plenty more, but these are the quintessential SF brands that reflect the culture/style of the city and area.
Levi's (and other denim): San Francisco is the birthplace of denim!
Quote:
Their business builds on San Francisco’s 141-year history of denim craftsmanship in a modern way: with an efficient, direct-to-customer distribution model. The brand is also one of the few truly able to claim that they are made in San Francisco.
And for local “artisanal” denim companies, that’s a big deal.
“I’ll be visiting Kyoto, Osaka or Frankfurt,” says Tony Patella of San Francisco-made Tellason jeans, “and people will tell me it’s important that Tellason are made in America — but more important that it is made in San Francisco.”
...
In addition to a nostalgic wish to produce denim in the city where jeans were born, Schachtebeck says he has noticed a nostalgia for the iconic silhouette itself. “There’s a return to simplicity and high quality — a classic 501 style.”
Auto Tesla (where else is Tesla going to grow and succeed?)
Bio Just want to point out Gilead in particular because SF was at the forefront of the AIDS epidemic and as a result, its large worldclass biotech industry is a leader in developing HIV drugs, with Gilead at the forefront (the biotech industry in SF is in standing with Boston's as the most important in the country, if not the world)
Consumer GoPro
Method Products (and insert green products sold in WF or local store here...most likely filled to the brim with Bay Area products)
Entertainment Pixar
Dreamworks Animation
LucasFilm
Electronic Arts
really long list...
Financial Wells Fargo - the bank that helped finance the Transcontinental Railroad, which of course came to SF
Bank of America - started by an Italian family that moved to SF (obviously now more of a NYC/Charlotte firm, sadly, as of 90s)
Food and Drink aside from the contributions SF has had on food and wine in America, there are some really "SF" brands:
Clif Bar
Jamba Juice
Odwalla
PowerBar
Annie's
Quintessential American brands like Ghirardelli Chocolate
Tons of sweets like Dreyer's, Swensen's, and Haagen Dazs, See's, Jelly Belly, etc etc
Coffee brands, coffee being eponymous with the city (Peet's, Blue Bottle, etc; Folgers and Hills Bros were both founded in SF before being bought out or move)
Uppity Retail
Pottery Barn
Williams-Sonoma
Restoration Hardware
Sur La Table
Aero Virgin America
Hospitality Kimpton (and plenty of other similar, lesser known groups that are very "SF" and yet popular around the country)
Environmental Groups Sierra Club (THE original and first group of its kind...naturally would start in San Francisco)
Earth Justice/Earth Law Center
Other Corporate Contributions by SF Hearst
Sharper Image
Rolling Stone
Bank of America
Folgers
SF has lots of Old World, particularly Italian connections. For instance Bianchi bikes (world's oldest bike maker) bases in SF. Benefit Cosmetics is part of LVMH. Campari America. Columbus Salame. etc etc
One need not venture further than the following Wiki pages to realize that SF has contributed A LOT more to American culture than not only DC, but most cities in the country:
Trader Vic's (Victor Bergeron is from SF, and he invented the Mai Tai)
The Martini!!!
The Fortune Cookie
Chinese cooking as Americans know it in general (aka Chop Suey)
Rice-A-Roni (as I said before, the Italian heritage in SF is really really strong...a guy named Domenico ("Charlie") DeDomenico created this)
Chicken Tetrazini
Mission Burrito
Sourdough Bread!!
And as I was corrected before, the Buena Vista Cafe likes to lay claim to Irish Coffee even though I guess it was invented in Ireland
Cioppino
Crab Louie
Mimosas!!
Popsicles!
And other contributions by SF: television (was invented in the city), the United Nations (was signed into existence in the city), etc etc
San Francisco has long been a contributory city, and its contributions are generally to:
Food/Beverage, Music, Apparel, Science/Tech, Environmentalism, and Social Movements. Oh, and it has that unique architecture it is so well known for...
Now, I guess on to DC...apparently people think it's close, so there's gotta be some long list of cultural/American contributions by DC that make it so iconic?
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Originally Posted by anonelitist
^^^
Basically, SF has contributed way more than its fair share to American culture, and DC really has not.
Now, I guess on to DC...apparently people think it's close, so there's gotta be some long list of cultural/American contributions by DC that make it so iconic?
That's a nice spirited debate and all, but I thought we were talking about the cities here and how cultural and iconic each are. You obviously are stepping beyond the boundaries of the 46 sq miles of SF to make your argument. Meaning if I could do the same thing here with DC and encompass a good chunk of the Mid-Atlantic region I will find plenty of cultural influences the Mid-Atlantic has had on this country. BET network, Radio One, The Muppets, Midnight Madness in college basketball, Under Armor (created in Georgetown), the Marriott family, Deer Park water and hundreds of more things have originated in this region of the country. To insinuate that DC and or the mid-Atlantic region has not had any impact on this country's culture is asinine.
With regards to music, a lot of what gets lost here is that the African American culture of the DC area is the predominate (local) culture that has lead the city and region for decades. SF may have a stronger international ties historically but DC in most recent decades sees a lot more international growth than most places around the country. African Americans in DC have their own GENRE of music that originated in Washington DC and seldom has escaped the area but at least it is something unique to this region that most cities cannot claim their AA segment has created it's own genre of music. Not to mention the Duke Ellington's and Marvin Gaye's etc who hail from the District and obviously have mega contributions to the music industry.
I think we could go back and forth, and I'll even give you somewhat of an edge SF (well really the Bay Area) has with cultural impact in this argument. Lets not act though, like the DC area has only been a government town for it's entire existence it's a lot deeper than that here.
Last edited by the resident09; 02-06-2015 at 09:46 AM..
^^^Most of my list (90+%) is SF city itself. But it's one thing to try to disqualify it because one small thing on the list might be currently headquartered in Emeryville just across the Bay Bridge, and then say well we but the "Mid-Atlantic Region" has also contributed...lol Richmond, Philly, and Baltimore could be counted in with Mid-Atlantic!
Also, for such a black culture, what HAS come out of DC? I guess Duke Ellington and Marvin Gaye. Seems Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago, LA, NYC, and other cities kick DC's black contributions behind...
I don't mean to sound incredibly down on the city, but in terms of cultural contributions, DC seems rather weak.
I'll just narrow down and summarize shortlist from the City of SF on either powerful brands or ideas or movements or groups of people that hail from the city, or things that were greatly influenced in the city:
Denim apparel (and SF does have a unique style overall)
Martinis and Mimosas
Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Schwab, and Visa
Folgers
Sourdough bread
Ghirardelli
LucasFilm
Hearst
Rolling Stone
Hippies
Hipsters
The Beat Generation
Gay Activism/Rights
Sexual Revolution
Church of Satan (lol)
Environmentalism
60s Rock
80s music
Metal
Punk/Ska
Electronic
Icons:
Golden Gate Bridge
Alcatraz
Cable Car
Fisherman's Wharf
Painted Ladies
Transamerica
The entire cityscape
Major influences on American immigrant food/culture:
Italian
Chinese
Mexican
Irish
I just don't see how DC can compete...it is way more of a one trick pony than nearly every major city. And it has been for its existence.
And can't forget one of the most quintessential San Francisco styles/contributions:
While I will first state that I believe SF is a bit more iconic in a lot of ways. The civil rights marches had such a profound impact on our country that I would go as far as to say that MLK's "I have a dream speech" is more iconic and culturally impactful than any single event the took place in SF over the course of time. However from the gold rush, to the haight ashbury days, to Danny Tanner and the full house crew, SF has had a lot of cultural impact on the rest of the country.
Having fortune 500 companies and corporations doesn't make a city iconic or culturally defining.
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