Washington DC, Miami/Fort Lauderdale, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, and Atlanta: Rank 1-5 Most-to-Least Southern (living, best)
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I'm really not bothered by any of this really but I'm a fairly reasonable person. Even in real life people make this mistake. Some people are just quick to want to associate with what they deem superior over what they deem inferior. It's human nature but interesting no less.
Me, I'm from the South but was born to parents from Up North and lived in a New England state and VA... So, my judgement is probably clouded when it comes to DC and MD. Well, my POR isn't conventional. Some Washingtonians try hard to come across as Northern imo....that's where I start seeing some irony.
I grew up in this area. I along with numerous others who currently reside here or are from here have already stated that we're not Southerners. I've already provided stats and maps indicidating how removed DC is from the South culturally whether its linguistically or religiously or etc.. we just aren't Southerners, never heard of anyone reference themselves or the area as being Southern while growing up here.
I'm really not bothered by any of this really but I'm a fairly reasonable person. Even in real life people make this mistake. Some people are just quick to want to associate with what they deem superior over what they deem inferior. It's human nature but interesting no less.
Me, I'm from the South but was born to parents from Up North and lived in a New England state and VA... So, my judgement is probably clouded when it comes to DC and MD. Well, my POR isn't conventional. Some Washingtonians try hard to come across as Northern imo....that's where I start seeing some irony.
I'm from DC, born and raised. I definitely don't view myself as Southern. My opinion of myself, culturally, is more important than anyone else's opinion.
I'm also not associating myself with being Northern either. I'm good with and identify with being from the Mid-Atlantic though.
I'll say it again though. DC is on the north side of the north/south line of East Coast of the US, using physical geography. In addition to that, it is so obvious that there is a NE axis that DC is a part of, which stretches from DC to Boston, looking at a map. This lends itself pretty flawlessly with it being included with the NE, using physical geography.
Last edited by revitalizer; 01-28-2018 at 09:13 AM..
I grew up in this area. I along with numerous others who currently reside here or are from here have already stated that we're not Southerners. I've already provided stats and maps indicidating how removed DC is from the South culturally whether its linguistically or religiously or etc.. we just aren't Southerners, never heard of anyone reference themselves or the area as being Southern while growing up here.
I grew up in the area, too. I also never heard anyone refer to themselves as southerners (I only began to refer to myself as a southerner because I'm extremely well traveled and most of my early life influences and shaping are not northern in the purest or most technical sense)...
When I lived in New York, I was struck with how different the DMV actually is from the Northeast, just a few hours away. I'm currently in New England, and a Vermonter I've been working with just told me a few days ago that she went to DC last year and "felt like she was going to melt", it was so hot. I told her that some people consider DC a part of the north, not the New England North, but northeast. She was indifferent, maybe a little surprised some people think that, and said: "Really? Well it's hot there, it doesn't get that hot here"...
This is a simple illustration on how perception varies depending on where you live. I don't think it had ever occurred to her that DC could be a part of the northern United States, and if pressed and asked to pick a region, I'm almost positive she'd have said South, because people are shaped by what they see----DC does not look or sound like anywhere around here, in any way (for the record, she did say DC was beautiful, and she loved it). I'm an hour and a half southwest of Montreal. Surely most people aren't city nerds the way us that use this forum are, but I'd reason people living here would be hard pressed to view DC as northern. This is to say nothing of the other climactic and geographical differences between DC and here...
I agree with you that DC is not of the modern South. I think most people agree with us. Last week, I went to Boston and instantly noticed some similarities (still mostly different, though). Still, not being greatly southern today is not the same as being totally northern, which validates your transition argument. I think what rubs people the wrong way is that DMV residents (on here) more voraciously argue against being considered southern, whereas there's next to no argument when they are called northern. And people who have been in the thick of undoubtedly northern areas, from small places like rural New England to larger metropolises like Buffalo or Cleveland, I think people who've spent considerable time in wholly northern areas, find it questionable at best, preposterous at worst, that many of the DMV residents on here have long outright shot down comparison or opinion that they may be southern in other ways, or that they can be looked at as southern...
I grew up there, too. It's exactly a transition zone, and because of certain geographic, political, climactic, architectural, infrastructural, and cultural factors, will likely always be that. It isn't South in the modern perception. It isnt North in the traditional and maybe even modern perception, depending on what point is being debated...
Generally speaking though, besides the small percentage of people like those of us who use CvC forum, I think the majority of people who live in the South have fueled the perception if DC as a "northern city", since the South is the largest geographical region. I think most people from the Midwest and West just call it East Coast, and there is definitely a large plurality, if not majority, of Northeasterners in the real world who probably don't consider DC the North....
It's crazy to think it's more southern than any city in this thread though. Lol...
I grew up in this area. I along with numerous others who currently reside here or are from here have already stated that we're not Southerners. I've already provided stats and maps indicidating how removed DC is from the South culturally whether its linguistically or religiously or etc.. we just aren't Southerners, never heard of anyone reference themselves or the area as being Southern while growing up here.
My point wasn't to prove that it was Southern but that there are some Southernish things about DC (not prove but just mention). I think the new Mid-Atlantic definition is more appropriate. You've probably said that but a blend of N/S is what I see and hear whenever I'm there and that's from the native Washingtonians not transplants (I've worked with a couple of Washingtonians too and they don't come across as Northern but my background does cloud my judgement I guess). I need to check out those maps then.
I grew up in the area, too. I also never heard anyone refer to themselves as southerners (I only began to refer to myself as a southerner because I'm extremely well traveled and most of my early life influences and shaping are not northern in the purest or most technical sense)...
When I lived in New York, I was struck with how different the DMV actually is from the Northeast, just a few hours away. I'm currently in New England, and a Vermonter I've been working with just told me a few days ago that she went to DC last year and "felt like she was going to melt", it was so hot. I told her that some people consider DC a part of the north, not the New England North, but northeast. She was indifferent, maybe a little surprised some people think that, and said: "Really? Well it's hot there, it doesn't get that hot here"...
This is a simple illustration on how perception varies depending on where you live. I don't think it had ever occurred to her that DC could be a part of the northern United States, and if pressed and asked to pick a region, I'm almost positive she'd have said South, because people are shaped by what they see----DC does not look or sound like anywhere around here, in any way (for the record, she did say DC was beautiful, and she loved it). I'm an hour and a half southwest of Montreal. Surely most people aren't city nerds the way us that use this forum are, but I'd reason people living here would be hard pressed to view DC as northern. This is to say nothing of the other climactic and geographical differences between DC and here...
I agree with you that DC is not of the modern South. I think most people agree with us. Last week, I went to Boston and instantly noticed some similarities (still mostly different, though). Still, not being greatly southern today is not the same as being totally northern, which validates your transition argument. I think what rubs people the wrong way is that DMV residents (on here) more voraciously argue against being considered southern, whereas there's next to no argument when they are called northern. And people who have been in the thick of undoubtedly northern areas, from small places like rural New England to larger metropolises like Buffalo or Cleveland, I think people who've spent considerable time in wholly northern areas, find it questionable at best, preposterous at worst, that many of the DMV residents on here have long outright shot down comparison or opinion that they may be southern in other ways, or that they can be looked at as southern...
I grew up there, too. It's exactly a transition zone, and because of certain geographic, political, climactic, architectural, infrastructural, and cultural factors, will likely always be that. It isn't South in the modern perception. It isnt North in the traditional and maybe even modern perception, depending on what point is being debated...
Generally speaking though, besides the small percentage of people like those of us who use CvC forum, I think the majority of people who live in the South have fueled the perception if DC as a "northern city", since the South is the largest geographical region. I think most people from the Midwest and West just call it East Coast, and there is definitely a large plurality, if not majority, of Northeasterners in the real world who probably don't consider DC the North....
It's crazy to think it's more southern than any city in this thread though. Lol...
Totally agree with everything you say. I've never considered myself Northeastern or as DC being a Northeastern city unless someone references the Bos-Wash corridor, but for sure I've never considered myself Southern either.
I grew up in the area, too. I also never heard anyone refer to themselves as southerners (I only began to refer to myself as a southerner because I'm extremely well traveled and most of my early life influences and shaping are not northern in the purest or most technical sense)...
When I lived in New York, I was struck with how different the DMV actually is from the Northeast, just a few hours away. I'm currently in New England, and a Vermonter I've been working with just told me a few days ago that she went to DC last year and "felt like she was going to melt", it was so hot. I told her that some people consider DC a part of the north, not the New England North, but northeast. She was indifferent, maybe a little surprised some people think that, and said: "Really? Well it's hot there, it doesn't get that hot here"...
This is a simple illustration on how perception varies depending on where you live. I don't think it had ever occurred to her that DC could be a part of the northern United States, and if pressed and asked to pick a region, I'm almost positive she'd have said South, because people are shaped by what they see----DC does not look or sound like anywhere around here, in any way (for the record, she did say DC was beautiful, and she loved it). I'm an hour and a half southwest of Montreal. Surely most people aren't city nerds the way us that use this forum are, but I'd reason people living here would be hard pressed to view DC as northern. This is to say nothing of the other climactic and geographical differences between DC and here...
I agree with you that DC is not of the modern South. I think most people agree with us. Last week, I went to Boston and instantly noticed some similarities (still mostly different, though). Still, not being greatly southern today is not the same as being totally northern, which validates your transition argument. I think what rubs people the wrong way is that DMV residents (on here) more voraciously argue against being considered southern, whereas there's next to no argument when they are called northern. And people who have been in the thick of undoubtedly northern areas, from small places like rural New England to larger metropolises like Buffalo or Cleveland, I think people who've spent considerable time in wholly northern areas, find it questionable at best, preposterous at worst, that many of the DMV residents on here have long outright shot down comparison or opinion that they may be southern in other ways, or that they can be looked at as southern...
I grew up there, too. It's exactly a transition zone, and because of certain geographic, political, climactic, architectural, infrastructural, and cultural factors, will likely always be that. It isn't South in the modern perception. It isnt North in the traditional and maybe even modern perception, depending on what point is being debated...
Generally speaking though, besides the small percentage of people like those of us who use CvC forum, I think the majority of people who live in the South have fueled the perception if DC as a "northern city", since the South is the largest geographical region. I think most people from the Midwest and West just call it East Coast, and there is definitely a large plurality, if not majority, of Northeasterners in the real world who probably don't consider DC the North....
It's crazy to think it's more southern than any city in this thread though. Lol...
I like your write-up on this. I like Mid-Atlantic as my identifier of choice. Does it really have to be southern or northern to choose from? I'd like to see Mid-Atlantic more broadly used.
I'm from DC, born and raised. I definitely don't view myself as Southern. My opinion of myself, culturally, is more important than anyone else's opinion.
I'm also not associating myself with being Northern either. I'm good with and identify with being from the Mid-Atlantic though.
I'll say it again though. DC is on the north side of the north/south line of East Coast of the US, using physical geography. In addition to that, it is so obvious that there is a NE axis that DC is a part of, which stretches from DC to Boston, looking at a map. This lends itself pretty flawlessly with it being included with the NE, using physical geography.
I'm a HUGE debater of, if the United States was founded as it appears today, DC would have never been thought of as southern. I also feel that way about Central Virginia...
Geographically DC is obviously within the northeast quadrant of the United States. So is Richmond, and the geographical midpoint of the East Coast is somewhere around the Virginia/North Carolina border, +/- 10 miles or so. Richmond is north of that midpoint by roughly 75 miles, and culturally disconnected from it, though not disconnected from the South and southern characteristics. Likewise, DC isn't as disconnected from the South as I think people want it to be...
Culturally, over the last century, especially within the last 40 years or so, we've watched Northeast culture expand southward, in a practical sense, and change perception of what was once easily considered southern. That southward trek has also hit Richmond and Central Virginia, and I can take a train from Richmond to Boston twice a day, but I can't take a train to Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, anywhere in the contemporary South besides Hampton Roads, and many people don't consider that area southern. This is just one of many indicators of the Northeast Megalopolis' extension into Richmond, where it seems destined to settle, and stands in stark contrast to the "southernification" of the United States as a whole (I've heard "y'all" and "bruh" since I've been in Vermont, I saw a request for sweet tea twice at restaurants here, I saw an Impala on d's in Boston, body completely built like what you see in DC or Atlanta, and these examples aren't even taking into account what I've encountered in other non-South regions around the country). It's truly an interesting case study...
Are we including metro areas? Because then one is most definitely looking at either Atlanta or DC for most Southern. If we're speaking geographically may as well throw Baltimore onto the list.
Southwestern is entirely different from Southern, so I'm not even sure why DFW and Houston are on the list.
Totally agree with everything you say. I've never considered myself Northeastern or as DC being a Northeastern city unless someone references the Bos-Wash corridor, but for sure I've never considered myself Southern either.
I just saw this and I stand corrected. I thought you were just another Washingtonian that's blindly and desperately hopping onto Northeastern association. (Years ago, these debates always popped up on C-D and many Washingtonians were saying some outright false stuff about their history just to align with the Northeast).
Are we including metro areas? Because then one is most definitely looking at either Atlanta or DC for most Southern. If we're speaking geographically may as well throw Baltimore onto the list.
Southwestern is entirely different from Southern, so I'm not even sure why DFW and Houston are on the list.
Ok, goofy.
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