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Westinghouse's alternating current - Westinghouse Corp Pittsburgh
Interlocking Steel Skeleton for skyscraper construction - US Steel Pittsburgh
First international corporation - Heinz (Ketchup) - Pittsburgh
PA Railroad
Air Brakes for Locomotives - Westinghouse - Pittsburgh
PA Turnpike
Vehicular Tunnel - Liberty Bridge and Tunnel Project - 1920's Pittsburgh (This was built in conjunction with the Boulevard of the Allies which was the largest public works project in US History at the time.)
First commercial broadcast - KDKA 1920's - Pittsburgh
First community supported television station - WQED 1950's - Pittsburgh
BIG Mac - Pittsburgh
First city to start a post WW2 renaissance and urban redevelopment - Pittsburgh
First Corten Steel sheathed skyscraper - US Steel Tower - Pittsburgh
First all aluminum skyscraper - Alcoa - Pittsburgh
People fond of Boston/MA will choose Boston/MA. People fond of Philadelphia/PA will choose Philadelphia/PA. That's how this forum works usually. No surprise. Trying to convince the other is a waste of time since most people just come on here to boast about where they live at all costs.
Or you could simply look at the facts and make a decision that way.
Massachusetts was settled before Pennsylvania and has had more historically significant events (at least in the categories given). This shouldn't be that hard.
Or you could simply look at the facts and make a decision that way.
Massachusetts was settled before Pennsylvania and has had more historically significant events (at least in the categories given). This shouldn't be that hard.
Of course, objectively, MA was settled earlier than PA generally speaking (although that can be a bit arbitrary for a "marker," as PA surpassed MA in population and established itself fairly quickly).
As to "historical significance," I don't think that's as cut-and-dried as you appear to imply. Sure, we can all cite various events/"firsts" for each of these states, but the extent to which each may be argued as "most significant" is at least a little bit opinion-based and nuanced (especially as some of our history is a bit murky and in some cases, disputed).
That's where this kind of comparison can be instructive, but not necessarily authoritative.
Of course, objectively, MA was settled earlier than PA generally speaking (although that can be a bit arbitrary for a "marker," as PA surpassed MA in population and established itself fairly quickly).
That's not even factually correct. As a colony, Massachusetts was larger up until around 1770, and even then the difference was negligible (~7,000). Pennsylvania is obviously much larger than Massachusetts as well; Rhode Island and Massachusetts combined were the same size as Pennsylvania during the revolution years.
As to "historical significance," I don't think that's as cut-and-dried as you appear to imply. Sure, we can all cite various events/"firsts" for each of these states, but the extent to which each may be argued as "most significant" is at least a little bit opinion-based and nuanced (especially as some of our history is a bit murky and in some cases, disputed).
Is the Boston Tea Party or Lexington being more important than the Battle of Germantown really a matter of opinion? Or the Industrial Revolution (in America) starting in Massachusetts? What historian would even dispute that?
Two of my most treasured states! This one is definitely a "too close to call," thus I won't vote.
MA has the edge on original settlement and the American Revolution as compared to PA (although PA of course played a critical role); PA arguably has more post-revolutionary significance compared to MA (with MA obviously being highly significant).
Too many firsts and significant historic sites/structures to count in each state, that's for sure.
This post on the first page of the thread kind of captures it. It’s a tie from my point of view. My mother is a Pennsylvania Dutch daughter of the American Revolution. Sergeant Ernst Heinrich Fritzinger. Both parents went to Penn. I’ve worked in Philly a huge amount. I grew up playing in the “Indian fort” in coastal Massachusetts that dates back to King Philip’s War with Massasoit and Metacomet. That’s 1675. The British burned most of my village in the Revolutionary War. One of the houses survived because a woman poured boiling water on the troops from the 2nd floor. My best friend is a Carnegie. Descended from the brother not named Andrew who didn’t give it all away. I know lots of people with the Mayflower in their family tree.
This post on the first page of the thread kind of captures it. It’s a tie from my point of view. My mother is a Pennsylvania Dutch daughter of the American Revolution. Sergeant Ernst Heinrich Fritzinger. Both parents went to Penn. I’ve worked in Philly a huge amount. I grew up playing in the “Indian fort” in coastal Massachusetts that dates back to King Philip’s War with Massasoit and Metacomet. That’s 1675. The British burned most of my village in the Revolutionary War. One of the houses survived because a woman poured boiling water on the troops from the 2nd floor. My best friend is a Carnegie. Descended from the brother not named Andrew who didn’t give it all away. I know lots of people with the Mayflower in their family tree.
Yep. Tie.
I think Virginia would have been a more interesting matchup given the categories.
That's not even factually correct. As a colony, Massachusetts was larger up until around 1770, and even then the difference was negligible (~7,000). Pennsylvania is obviously much larger than Massachusetts as well; Rhode Island and Massachusetts combined were the same size as Pennsylvania during the revolution years.
And I didn't state anything to the contrary re: timeline. My generalized statement is factually true. By 1780, the gap widened to nearly 60,000 within a decade--so clearly the growth momentum was on PA's side post-Revolution.
Is the Boston Tea Party or Lexington being more important than the Battle of Germantown really a matter of opinion? Or the Industrial Revolution (in America) starting in Massachusetts? What historian would even dispute that?
Why are we cherry-picking individual events for comparison? Does an individual start of an era (i.e., start of the Industrial Revolution in New England) outweigh the immense industry contributions in PA that literally built so much of the country (steel, coal and rail)?
And I didn't state anything to the contrary re: timeline. My generalized statement is factually true. By 1780, the gap widened to nearly 60,000 within a decade--so clearly the growth momentum was on PA's side post-Revolution.
I was objecting to the "quickly surpassed it" part. Massachusetts had a larger population for nearly a century. So it had more than 60 years of history before Pennsylvania even existed and a larger population for most of the 18th Century (despite having 1/7th the land area).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino
Does an individual start of an era (i.e., start of the Industrial Revolution in New England) outweigh the immense industry contributions in PA that literally built so much of the country (steel, coal and rail)?
Yes. This is why we still talk about Britain's role in the Industrial Revolution in American textbooks and not Pennsylvania's (or China). Massachusetts was the beginning of the Industrial Revolution in America, so historically speaking, it is more significant than a state that may have surpassed it in the scale of its industrialization.
Is the Boston Tea Party or Lexington being more important than the Battle of Germantown really a matter of opinion? Or the Industrial Revolution (in America) starting in Massachusetts? What historian would even dispute that?
I think your analog for Lexington/Concord is incomplete. (I'll give you the Tea Party, but as that one poster noted, it was the Philadelphians' expression of outrage that moved the Bostonians to voice the same opinion; the difference is, after they did so, the Bostonians had the first opportunity to dump tea into the water, which they took.)
The Battle of Germantown was one of the events running up to the British capture of Philadelphia (the capital of the country) in 1777, but bracketing it were Washington's crossing of the Delaware in 1776 to carry out a successful surprise attack on British troops at Trenton - yes, the battle was in New Jersey, but the runup to it began in Pennsylvania - and the tragic winter encampment at Valley Forge in 1777-78.
Of course, by the time all this happened, the British had left Boston in order to focus on occupying Philadelphia and New York.
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