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I was objecting to the "quickly surpassed it" part. Massachusetts had a larger population for nearly a century. So it had more than 60 years of history before Pennsylvania even existed and a larger population for most of the 18th Century (despite having 1/7th the land area).
But which major milestones occured within that lengthier colonial era in MA? Is simply "existing" enough to be historic? Bear in mind that your reference to land area is essentially moot, as you and I both know that the Philadelphia area contained the overwhelming population in Pennsylvania until the middle of the 19th century when the Western PA "frontier" began to be settled.
Also worth noting on the topic of settlement/establishment that Pennsylvania (est. 1787) achieved statehood before Massachusetts (est. 1788), which again speaks to the momentum going on in the Middle Colonies at that point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Yes. This is why we still talk about Britain's role in the Industrial Revolution in American textbooks and not Pennsylvania's (or China). Massachusetts was the beginning of the Industrial Revolution in America, so historically speaking, it is more significant than a state that may have surpassed it in the scale
Any thorough and comprehensive textbook would make reference to the American IR starting in New England but also made significant by the many contributions across multiple US regions. This Library of Congress teacher's guide sums it up well: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...LtNAwIq0AoAZOG
But which major milestones occured within that lengthier colonial era in MA? Is simply "existing" enough to be historic? Bear in mind that your reference to land area is essentially moot, as you and I both know that the Philadelphia area contained the overwhelming population in Pennsylvania until the middle of the 19th century when the Western PA "frontier" began to be settled.
Also worth noting on the topic of settlement/establishment that Pennsylvania (est. 1787) achieved statehood before Massachusetts (est. 1788), which again speaks to the momentum going on in the Middle Colonies at that point.
Any thorough and comprehensive textbook would make reference to the American IR starting in New England but also made significant by the many contributions across multiple US regions. This Library of Congress teacher's guide sums it up well: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...LtNAwIq0AoAZOG
Statehood was a political process. The Federalists had stronger opposition in Massachusetts than PA in the 1780s that has nothing to do with momentum or importance.
Thanksgiving weekend comes from Massachusetts. The Salem Witch Trials the first multicolony Union (Dominion of NewEngkand started in Mass.
I think your analog for Lexington/Concord is incomplete. (I'll give you the Tea Party, but as that one poster noted, it was the Philadelphians' expression of outrage that moved the Bostonians to voice the same opinion; the difference is, after they did so, the Bostonians had the first opportunity to dump tea into the water, which they took.)
The Battle of Germantown was one of the events running up to the British capture of Philadelphia (the capital of the country) in 1777, but bracketing it were Washington's crossing of the Delaware in 1776 to carry out a successful surprise attack on British troops at Trenton - yes, the battle was in New Jersey, but the runup to it began in Pennsylvania - and the tragic winter encampment at Valley Forge in 1777-78.
Of course, by the time all this happened, the British had left Boston in order to focus on occupying Philadelphia and New York.
They wanted to occupy New York to cut off New England from the rest of the colonies. The Battle of Saratoga was a battle to capture the Hudson and sever Massachusetts from the rest of the colonies
The intolerable acts were specifically targeted as Massachusetts. Massachusetts was the driver of the entire war.
They wanted to occupy New York to cut off New England from the rest of the colonies. The Battle of Saratoga was a battle to capture the Hudson and sever Massachusetts from the rest of the colonies
The intolerable acts were specifically targeted as Massachusetts. Massachusetts was the driver of the entire war.
Mass. was instrumental in instigating the war, for sure. But it was waged, fought and won across the colonies. The means by which the Revolution was triggered was only made significant by the work to see it actualized, which clearly is a credit that goes far beyond Massachusetts.
PreColonial: PA
Colonial: Massachusetts
American Democracy: Pennsylvania
American Revolution:Massachusetts
Civil War: Pennsylvania
Industrial Revolution: Massachusetts
Roaring 20s: Massachusetts (Cape Cod, Martha's Vineyard)
# of 1sts: Massachusetts by far (First Park, Subway, Public Library, Public School, Public College, University, etc you get the point)
Historical Assets: Both
Most historic Landmarks: Massachusetts
Historic Architecture: Massachusetts
Id give the nod to Massachusetts, but by no means is PA a slacker. Most of these were very close.
Pennsylvania should get Colonial and American Revolution. Valley Forge, Independence Hall, Betsy Ross, Ben Franklin, Washington, Brandywine Battlefield, etc. It probably should get both Historic Landmarks and Historical Architecture as well.
Oh, you work for the Mass Tourism Bureau. Never mind.
It astounds me posters from MA give no credit to Pennsylvania in this thread in regards to Industrial Revolution.
Pennsylvania in terms of historical accomplishments is surely the most accomplished. Philadelphia as considered the workshop of the world in that era and rivaled London, and then Pittsburgh was its own might that out performed Boston in all metrics.
The Pennsylvania Railroad was the "Apple" of that era in terms of finance and wealth.
Pennsylvania was in fact the 2nd wealthiest state behind only New York.
The first business school was a result of that prominence (Wharton School of Business), not to mention many other more notable and high regarded instances.
The backbone of modern day America. Was built in Pennsylvania, in terms of industry.
Pennsylvania should get Colonial and American Revolution. Valley Forge, Independence Hall, Betsy Ross, Ben Franklin, Washington, Brandywine Battlefield, etc. It probably should get both Historic Landmarks and Historical Architecture as well.
Oh, you work for the Mass Tourism Bureau. Never mind.
Just to add one more note in the Historic Landmarks category, directly related to the American Revolution:
Pennsylvania has two UNESCO World Heritage Sites, including the first one in the country that was neither a natural feature nor related to the indigenous peoples of the Americas. (And because it's located in a city - also the first such UNESCO World Heritage Site in the US - the city it's in was the first in the US to be named a member of the Organization of World Heritage Cities, an advocacy and promotional organization with no formal ties to UNESCO.) The other, added this year, is part of a collection of buildings in several locations (none in Massachusetts) designed by the most famous of all American architects.
ive lived in both, boston celebrates a bigger culture of history than philadelphia. patriots day and evacuation day are actual holidays in boston.
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