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The 8 counties that make up the Milwaukee CSA area is 2,230,000. CSA here is just a better deteriming factor of size but yes I agree that size does not matter, completely. A lot of people here see Baltimore as yeah they have a harbor but outside if that it's Detroit on steroids.
If you look at the urban area of Milwaukee link, you will see a lot of holes in that donut. Where it shows nobody living is suburban country where it is still filled in with homes and people and businesses.
The 8 counties that make up the Milwaukee CSA area is 2,230,000. CSA here is just a better deteriming factor of size but yes I agree that size does not matter, completely.
Again, why is CSA a better determination for cities size?
UA actually counts physically connect developed census tracts that have to meet minimum densities and population requirements. They don't just lump a random town 15 miles away separated by nothing farmland as "part of the city." Can they be economically connect sure, but no one here is going to call Kent Island part of Baltimore when it's on the other side of the Chesapeake Bay despite being part of the formers MSA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City
A lot of people here see Baltimore as yeah they have a harbor but outside if that it's Detroit on steroids.
If that view point was so true, Baltimore wouldn't be winning this poll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City
If you look at the urban area of Milwaukee link, you will see a lot of holes in that donut. Where it shows nobody living is suburban country where it is still filled in with homes and people and businesses.
The U.S. Census Bureau defines an urban area as "core census block groups or blocks that have a population density of at least 1,000 people per square mile (386 per square kilometer) and surrounding census blocks that have an overall density of at least 500 people per square mile (193 per square kilometer)
Those gaps/holes are not listed because those place by census definition are not urban, but rural. If you are driving through farmland/agricultural crops/country you are no longer "in the city". Sure people are living there, but they are in no way part of cities urban fabric/developed land.
And Providence MSA counts Fall River and New Bedford, MA. Pretty distorted if you know what I mean.
No. I was born in New Bedford and grew up in a coastal village a couple miles west of the city. I’m old enough to be pre-cable TV. Television was channels 6, 10, and 12. Due to an oddity in FCC regulations, the ABC channel 6 studio was in New Bedford and the tower 15 miles west in Little Compton RI. The three Providence stations. It was the Providence news feed. I got school cancellations during snowstorms for Foster/Gloster. Scituate was the RI town, not the Massachusetts town. The daily Providence crime boss stories. Providence College basketball in sports coverage so I knew who Dave Gavitt and Ernie D were. Some people had fancy antennas on their houses so you could watch Stooges or Speed Racer on the Boston UHF channels. Pro sports was Boston. Everything else was more Providence. Salty Brine as the radio/tv personally. Coffee milk. Quahogs. Narragansett beer.
The South Coast is still fairly isolated from Boston because the transportation infrastructure is so awful. The Southeast Expressway is a brutal traffic jam. Long promised commuter rail might show up in four years if it’s not killed due to a COVID-19 budget crisis. I can get to Providence Place in 35 minutes if I need the Apple store. South Station is an hour at 2am but completely non-deterministic drive time midweek between 5am and 10pm. I can’t book Logan morning flights. I can’t reliably get to the airport for a flight that leaves before 11:30am. I know people who work state jobs in Boston who do bus or can pool every day. They’re now rolling at 5am to get to the Braintree split before 6am. The zipper lane plugs solid by 6:30. Brockton to 128 on Route 24 backs up before 7am so a 128 job with a car commute is also awful. In contrast, I can get to TF Green in 45 minutes and budget an hour in Providence rush hour. I’ve made it in 40 minutes many times just moving with the left lane traffic.
So from my perspective, New Bedford in the Providence metro is still reasonable. Commuter rail will probably cause a big shift even if relatively few people commute with it.
No. I was born in New Bedford and grew up in a coastal village a couple miles west of the city. I’m old enough to be pre-cable TV. Television was channels 6, 10, and 12. Due to an oddity in FCC regulations, the ABC channel 6 studio was in New Bedford and the tower 15 miles west in Little Compton RI. The three Providence stations. It was the Providence news feed. I got school cancellations during snowstorms for Foster/Gloster. Scituate was the RI town, not the Massachusetts town. The daily Providence crime boss stories. Providence College basketball in sports coverage so I knew who Dave Gavitt and Ernie D were. Some people had fancy antennas on their houses so you could watch Stooges or Speed Racer on the Boston UHF channels. Pro sports was Boston. Everything else was more Providence. Salty Brine as the radio/tv personally. Coffee milk. Quahogs. Narragansett beer.
The South Coast is still fairly isolated from Boston because the transportation infrastructure is so awful. The Southeast Expressway is a brutal traffic jam. Long promised commuter rail might show up in four years if it’s not killed due to a COVID-19 budget crisis. I can get to Providence Place in 35 minutes if I need the Apple store. South Station is an hour at 2am but completely non-deterministic drive time midweek between 5am and 10pm. I can’t book Logan morning flights. I can’t reliably get to the airport for a flight that leaves before 11:30am. I know people who work state jobs in Boston who do bus or can pool every day. They’re now rolling at 5am to get to the Braintree split before 6am. The zipper lane plugs solid by 6:30. Brockton to 128 on Route 24 backs up before 7am so a 128 job with a car commute is also awful. In contrast, I can get to TF Green in 45 minutes and budget an hour in Providence rush hour. I’ve made it in 40 minutes many times just moving with the left lane traffic.
So from my perspective, New Bedford in the Providence metro is still reasonable. Commuter rail will probably cause a big shift even if relatively few people commute with it.
Do you know if there was ever a direct passenger rail service from Providence out to Fall River and New Bedford? I know that existed to Boston, but was there ever a route that went more directly from those places to Providence?
Again, why is CSA a better determination for cities size?
UA actually counts physically connect developed census tracts that have to meet minimum densities and population requirements. They don't just lump a random town 15 miles away separated by nothing farmland as "part of the city." Can they be economically connect sure, but no one here is going to call Kent Island part of Baltimore when it's on the other side of the Chesapeake Bay despite being part of the formers MSA.
If that view point was so true, Baltimore wouldn't be winning this poll.
The U.S. Census Bureau defines an urban area as "core census block groups or blocks that have a population density of at least 1,000 people per square mile (386 per square kilometer) and surrounding census blocks that have an overall density of at least 500 people per square mile (193 per square kilometer)
Those gaps/holes are not listed because those place by census definition are not urban, but rural. If you are driving through farmland/agricultural crops/country you are no longer "in the city". Sure people are living there, but they are in no way part of cities urban fabric/developed land.
UA "holes" are not unique to Milwaukee.
CSA makes sense for some cities like Miami-Ft Lauderdale/West Palm Beach, Raleigh/Durham, Los Angeles/San Bernardino. For other metros, it is a horrible metric to use.
So from my perspective, New Bedford in the Providence metro is still reasonable. Commuter rail will probably cause a big shift even if relatively few people commute with it.
Taunton is the city that arguably shouldn’t be in Providence’s MSA. However, it isn’t in the UA so that metric especially is pretty good, imo.
Do you know if there was ever a direct passenger rail service from Providence out to Fall River and New Bedford? I know that existed to Boston, but was there ever a route that went more directly from those places to Providence?
Do you know if there was ever a direct passenger rail service from Providence out to Fall River and New Bedford? I know that existed to Boston, but was there ever a route that went more directly from those places to Providence?
Direct? Maybe to Fall River. But there was regular service between all the New England cities really
Yea, I know that there was formerly much, much more extensive passenger rail service among New England cities. I just wasn't sure that there was one that would be a direct-ish route that went Providence-Fall River-New Bedford given how many inlets / rivers that lie in the path between Providence and Fall River. I wonder how much of the Fall River, Warren, and Providence Railroad tracks, right-of-way and water crossings still exist today. It'd be interesting if there was enough remnants to put a reasonable budget together for resumption of the line, though I'm guessing that much of the line is probably gone.
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