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Is it really just size though? Atlanta lost an NHL team not once, but twice. Houston doesn't have an NHL team. LA went 20 years without an NFL team. Phoenix could very well lose their NHL team soon. Montreal lost its MLB team. Fandom has played into some of those.
The NHL really wants to get into Houston but the Rockets (who own the arena) have resisted. While Vegas got a brand new empty 17,500 seat arena
There is politics involved because owners would rather not front the $1B or whatever to build an arena if a slightly worse market (especially adjusting for aggressive revenue sharing) can give them one for free. But I’d mostly just market size.
Anaheim is not a better hockey town than Grand Rapids or Hartford or Milwaukee, it’s just bigger.
Similar Winnipeg pretty much got a team because the Hawks evicted the Thrashers and Winnipeg had an empty NHL sized ice arena just waiting they could plop a team into. Rather than Winnipeg being a good market (see attendance this year despite being a playoff team)
An example of how they are exclusive is the Chargers.
When they left San Diego, conventional wisdom was that "no one" would go to their games as there would be no viable fan base.
Looks like they're solidly in the top 1/3rd of NFL attendance, and I don't know what else this could be attributed to beyond the range of Los Angeles to host multiple major sports events on any day of the week.
Was that really "conventional wisdom" though? In order to uproot an NFL franchise and move it to one of the most expensive stadiums in the world in a new city, a lot of people and big entities have to believe quite strongly that there will be support when that team arrives. Clearly they were right. The "no one will go!" notion was a hot take at the time and was proven wrong pretty quickly.
Regardless, I'm not sure what your point is? I'm not arguing that LA isn't a "sports capital" by any definition. It has a large enough population and passionate enough fans to support multiple franchises across multiple sports. It's also capable of drawing crowds for one-offs and special events. It's an Olympic city. It's both a sporting economic engine, and home to passionate sports fans that can fill many stadiums and arenas year round.
The NHL really wants to get into Houston but the Rockets (who own the arena) have resisted. While Vegas got a brand new empty 17,500 seat arena
There is politics involved because owners would rather not front the $1B or whatever to build an arena if a slightly worse market (especially adjusting for aggressive revenue sharing) can give them one for free. But I’d mostly just market size.
Anaheim is not a better hockey town than Grand Rapids or Hartford or Milwaukee, it’s just bigger.
Similar Winnipeg pretty much got a team because the Hawks evicted the Thrashers and Winnipeg had an empty NHL sized ice arena just waiting they could plop a team into. Rather than Winnipeg being a good market (see attendance this year despite being a playoff team)
Houston has had 30+ years to build an NHL arena. At this point, it's no longer politics and more lack of support. I agree on the Ducks. And I would challenge that Winnipeg isn't a good hockey market. I can't find more recent data, but in 2021, the Jets were the 3rd highest regional market in Canada. The Jets attendance last year was at 91.6%, Chicago for instance was at 87%. The Jets play in the smallest arena in the NHL besides the Coyotes so of course the attendance numbers would be lower. I want to emphasize that attendance should not be the end all be all.
Houston has had 30+ years to build an NHL arena. At this point, it's no longer politics and more lack of support. I agree on the Ducks. And I would challenge that Winnipeg isn't a good hockey market. I can't find more recent data, but in 2021, the Jets were the 3rd highest regional market in Canada. The Jets attendance last year was at 91.6%, Chicago for instance was at 87%. The Jets play in the smallest arena in the NHL besides the Coyotes so of course the attendance numbers would be lower. I want to emphasize that attendance should not be the end all be all.
A city building an arena is a sign they’re pathetic not that they love their team. Also the Jets attendance so far this year has been even lower than last year. However I wasn’t saying Winnipeg is a bad market, I’m saying them receiving a tram has more to do with an immediately available vacant 15,500 seat arena than Winnipeg being fantastic
The Bruins not only build their own arena, but had to build Boston a train station to get their arena.
A city building an arena is a sign they’re pathetic not that they love their team. Also the Jets attendance so far this year has been even lower than last year. However I wasn’t saying Winnipeg is a bad market, I’m saying them receiving a tram has more to do with an immediately available vacant 15,500 seat arena than Winnipeg being fantastic
The Bruins not only build their own arena, but had to build Boston a train station to get their arena.
I'm not following? I'm assuming you mean prior to getting a team? How is that pathetic? The arenas don't sit empty all the time until a team comes. Also, why would a team relocate somewhere without a stadium or plans for a stadium? Especially if it is already built, then they'd pay less.
I'm not following? I'm assuming you mean prior to getting a team? How is that pathetic? The arenas don't sit empty all the time until a team comes. Also, why would a team relocate somewhere without a stadium or plans for a stadium? Especially if it is already built, then they'd pay less.
A team owner building an arena is not Pathetic. A city/County handing out a billion+ to build a stadium or arena is Pathetic.
Buffalo/Erie County is paying $1b or so to the Bills to build their stadium. That’s loser behavior.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
Having all 4 teams is more an indication of size than an indicator of sports fandom. With some politics thrown in their, like the Thrashers basically got evicted by the Hawks or OkC more or less bought the Thunder
That is not at all what happened with the Thrashers. They had crappy owners that were more interested in making a buck than the fans, and then blamed the fans when the bolted for more money.
It's all good though, because you forgot that there is a fifth sport and it's growing faster than all of the others: Football (or soccer as we insist on calling it in this country) and that is where Atlanta makes up for the lack of an NHL team. Atlanta United is top 25 in the world for average fan attendance. Not the US (where it's number one and has been since 2017), not the Americas, but the WORLD including European top division with an average of 47k per match, but a few times a year the club puts on 70k seat matches which get filled too.
The team got lucky from a few things colliding at near the same time. First was the loss of the Thrashers that still bums out anyone who was a fan, then the Braves decided to move the suburbs, and we just so happen to attract a lot of transplants from football loving countries.
This has all translated into US Soccer moving their headquarters here, FIFA deciding the media center for the next World Cup should be here, at least two rounds of the World Cup (sadly not the final since MBS doesn't have a high enough capacity), and just yesterday Copa America announced the kickoff match will be at MBS because they know it's one of the few soccer venues that will easily be packed out in this country without question.
Now in fairness to this thread soccer isn't yet at the hype level as the other leagues quite yet, but this is rapidly changing. You can find the same level of enthusiasm for the sport in Seattle, Portland, Cincinnati, St Louis, Charlotte, Austin, and Orlando (not counting the plastics in Miami, but i'll give them a shout out while Messi is around) and spreading fast. With upcoming World Cup and an USMNT that is actually good, don't be surprised to see a similar growing enthusiasm across the country.
Once people experience the beautiful game it's hard to turn away.
A team owner building an arena is not Pathetic. A city/County handing out a billion+ to build a stadium or arena is Pathetic.
Buffalo/Erie County is paying $1b or so to the Bills to build their stadium. That’s loser behavior.
I get what you're saying and i personally don't love the idea, but why is that loser behavior? If a city believes it's in its best interest, I may disagree, but I wouldn't call it loser behavior, especially when it's becoming common practice. Since 2000, 19 NFL stadiums have been built. Only 3 were built entirely with private money. Meaning at least half the NFL is receiving taxpayer support. And you know that number will surely go up.
The NHL really wants to get into Houston but the Rockets (who own the arena) have resisted.
Have they? I didn't know that.
I thought the Rockets shared the Toyota Center with Houston's Hockey Team until ten years ago when they moved away.
Not sure what the poster means by Houston has 30 years to build a stadium and didn't. Houston built the Stadium for Basketball and Hockey just 20 years ago. Around the same time they built the NFL stadium and a few years before they built the MLS stadium.
I don't think stadiums are an issue. Houston has 3 stadiums downtown and the NFL and 2 College stadiums are nearby on the rail making for 6 stadiums near downtown on the rail.
There is an enthusiasm issue though. Even the Astros had difficulty building back it's fanbase despite 2 world series wins.
The Rockets too are popular when they are winning but not so much when they are not
The Texans have a great tailgate culture, but enthusiasm in the stadium is so so. Even with one of the more entertaining QBs this season.
The Dynamos came out with a bang, and won the MLS cup in 06 and 07 and was 2nd in 2011 and 2012. But enthusiasm there follow win cycles.
Despite the enthusiasm gaps, I think having the stadiums downtown has helped with downtown activity. The Astros is planning their Astros Village around their stadium and the Toyota Center is definitely due for upgrades.
UH athletics has grown quite a bit so the foundation is there for Houston to be huge in both professional and College sports if they can get that enthusiasm train going.
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