Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What's up with these people not even from Chicago who are almost morbidly obsessed with the city!? It's honestly kinda creepy/comical. Mostly creepy though.
If they turned their hated for something that doesn't even concern them on a personal level into something constructive I think it might be spectacular.
Yes, top talent is just itching to move to the Rust Belt, to Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland; all for the privilege of poor pay, low quality of life, no opportunity, and some of the nation's highest unemployment.
And sure, financial talent moves to places with no banks or financial services!
Hmmm, when did I mention Cleveland or Detroit or anywhere outside of Chicago? I know most of the Rust Belt isn't an extremely desirable place...especially for top-level talent. However, Chicago is the exception. The CME and CBOE are two of the more important exchanges on the planet. Northern Trust is one of the largest managers of institutional investments in the country/planet. Aside from Northern Trust, Chicago does not have huge banks with world HQ's there. However, every major investment house has a major presence in Chicago...they need to.
Go turn it on CNBC. If they're at an exchange they're are at 1 of 3 places: the NYSE, the CME or the NYMEX (owned by the CME). Do you understand the type of cash pit traders make? Those are top-level people down there, whether you choose to accept that or not is your problem. Keep ignoring Chicago simply because for some reason you've got a bone to pick with the city. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
I'm going to have to agree with osito on this, the upper crust talent is leaving for the coast nyc/london, hell even sf. It has to do with overall opportunity and QOL, not just that cbot and cme are in Chicago.
While you may think he is rude, and throw in some little off stats sometime, he certainly his not off the wall in his claims.
There was a post by yoyobubba that help explained this phenomenon...
I'll just quote it off the top of my head...
NW only gets about 15% of people that are even from IL in the first place, and 30% of them are usually from California. Even those... many leave.
UChicago is even stricter so I'm sure its worse.
I'd be intersted to see UIUC, I'm fairly sure they have a substantial brain drain going on too, not as bad as NW/UC though.
Yes there is definitely money to be made and I personally know people from London who prefer the Merc but those are rare.
It's kind of sad actually but this is nothing new, heck my grandfather phd in EE at NW and left in the 1950s!
As far as investment banks go Chicago only has ONE in the top 100, NYC has around 50 with every single spot in the top 10. That is what Chicago is up against.
There are some other ridiculous niche industries like this as well that nyc is like WTF? How did they get all this.
SF is the GLOBAL leader in venture capital...and of course there is good money to be made in cities like LA, Miami, Boston as well.
This is certainly same in my industry (IT) as well, if you say you are going to Chicago and you are top talent people might look at you like you are on crack. Hey I DID that and well, I got those looks and I certainly wasn't upper crust talent.
I know Chicago just got CCX, but not sure how that is ever going to pan out.
So yes there is lots of money to be made and Chicago is certainly no slouch, but there is even more so elsewhere.
I can only comment on what I know, and that is several young people who have graduated with MBA's from U of Chicago and Kellogg, and one is a VP at a major investment firm in Chicago (he's 31), two have started up their own businesses, and the other originally moved back to LA, but came back to Chicago and is working his way up the ladder as an investment banker. Not everyone stays, of course, but not everyone leaves either.
I'm going to have to agree with osito on this, the upper crust talent is leaving for the coast nyc/london, hell even sf. It has to do with overall opportunity and QOL, not just that cbot and cme are in Chicago.
While you may think he is rude, and throw in some little off stats sometime, he certainly his not off the wall in his claims.
There was a post by yoyobubba that help explained this phenomenon...
I'll just quote it off the top of my head...
NW only gets about 15% of people that are even from IL in the first place, and 30% of them are usually from California. Even those... many leave.
UChicago is even stricter so I'm sure its worse.
I'd be intersted to see UIUC, I'm fairly sure they have a substantial brain drain going on too, not as bad as NW/UC though.
Yes there is definitely money to be made and I personally know people from London who prefer the Merc but those are rare.
It's kind of sad actually but this is nothing new, heck my grandfather phd in EE at NW and left in the 1950s!
As far as investment banks go Chicago only has ONE in the top 100, NYC has around 50 with every single spot in the top 10. That is what Chicago is up against.
There are some other ridiculous niche industries like this as well that nyc is like WTF? How did they get all this.
SF is the GLOBAL leader in venture capital...and of course there is good money to be made in cities like LA, Miami, Boston as well.
This is certainly same in my industry (IT) as well, if you say you are going to Chicago and you are top talent people might look at you like you are on crack. Hey I DID that and well, I got those looks and I certainly wasn't upper crust talent.
I know Chicago just got CCX, but not sure how that is ever going to pan out.
So yes there is lots of money to be made and Chicago is certainly no slouch, but there is even more so elsewhere.
I'm not going to go through this a respond to each part individually, I'm just going to respond to everything at once. Better schools, like Northwestern obviously see a great deal of their alumni leave. The students come, get their education, and for the most part, go back to where they came from. I'm sure schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, etc. see huge numbers of their alum leave. You can't really pick and choose which facts you present.
As far as the banking industry goes, its no surprise Chicago doesn't have a huge presence on the list. But I'm pretty sure you very well know Chicago plays a pretty big role in the Finance Industry.
Chicago's really the only of the big three that's made for the average American worker. The real estate isn't through the roof, the quality of life is great, and its very suitable for a family.
I'm not going to go through this a respond to each part individually, I'm just going to respond to everything at once. Better schools, like Northwestern obviously see a great deal of their alumni leave. The students come, get their education, and for the most part, go back to where they came from. I'm sure schools like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, etc. see huge numbers of their alum leave. You can't really pick and choose which facts you present.
As far as the banking industry goes, its no surprise Chicago doesn't have a huge presence on the list. But I'm pretty sure you very well know Chicago plays a pretty big role in the Finance Industry.
Chicago's really the only of the big three that's made for the average American worker. The real estate isn't through the roof, the quality of life is great, and its very suitable for a family.
No disagreements here. I agree Chicago is very well rounded and might have the highest middle class of any city (don't quote me on this)
I think Yale, Princeton do a better job and NYC is attracting a lot of IVY talent... (again, don't quote me on this)
IL is #2 in the country for residents leaving state after college. It is kind of sad, as I have said many times Chicago has great infrastructure and architecture and tons of office space but it is having a hard time attracting and keeping top talent (at least in compared to U.S. context)
On finance, chicago does have a pretty big share of insurance industry.
It completely blows away rest of midwest though.
NW only gets about 15% of people that are even from IL in the first place, and 30% of them are usually from California.
I can only speak for the medical school. Each class is only 170 students so it's not like a huge migration either way, but what does that have to do with brain drain? What you just described is brain draw.
Quote:
IL is #2 in the country for residents leaving state after college.
That didn't sound right to me considering that Chicago is in Illinois, so I decided to look it up. Many states have brain drain but Illinois is not one of them. Here are the numbers:
Nice list... that data is a 95-00 subset though. Things have changed since then.
Quite sure I read NJ was #1, IL #2 as of current... I'll try to find it again. But it would be good to see what is actually going on either way.
Nevertheless using that same data set, IL is 4th lowest IN migration behind Iowa, Michigan, WV. at 11.2
The lowest out, which explains that phenomenon we were talking about in the other thread is California at 8.2.
source: http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=c...en&gl=us&pli=1
Nice list... that data is a 95-00 subset though. Things have changed since then.
Quite sure I read NJ was #1, IL #2... I'll try to find it again. But it would be good to see what is actually going on either way.
That's the latest Census data I could find. If you have a newer list from the Census feel free to post it. Stats are always interesting, but be careful because the last real count was in 2000 and that data is from that.
Thanks yoyobubba, always enlightening to have actual data to evaluate. I'm a Pritzker graduate from out of state, who left for residency and am now back practicing in Illinois. I don't keep in touch with most of my classmates, but my back of the envelope calculation is that about 20% of the class is from Illinois, and probably 30-40% are still here over a decade after graduation. U of C holds on to a lot of its own trainees, both as residents and attendings.
Last edited by oakparkdude; 09-08-2009 at 02:15 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
