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I used to work at the Walmart Distribution center in Washington Court House, Ohio. I drove their grocery trucks (Schneider was the carrier). 95% of my routes took me through Dayton via US 35 to I-75. Those housing projects on the westside of I-75 in Dayton just as you leave downtown says it all.
You may think that people are attracted to southern sprawl, but in reality people are flocking to southern cities. Many of these cities are the same size as Dayton (if not MUCH larger).
I grew up in Charlotte, yet I left Charlotte MANY times before returning two years ago. I have seen the entire Nation. Hopefully, I can answer your question.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you are used to the South being "less than" the Midwest when it comes to well..... EVERYTHING!!! I have encountered your mentality many times over. What you (and folks like you) don't understand is that the South at one point was the country's wealthiest region. It did have cheap slave labor. Because of this, the South remained mostly rural because there was more money in being rural (cotton feilds). The North did not have the South's long growing season (which makes me wonder would slavery have existed in the North if it did? The North most certainly had racism during slavery time). As a result, the BEST economic move for the North was to grow large labor markets. This created SEVERAL large cities in the North.
Today, the South no longer has cheap slave labor. Our farmers can not compete with farmers in other countries. It is now time for the South to grow large labor markets. Because the South is already less developed than the North, the South can do business much cheaper than the North. The warmer weather (specifically less snow fall) is another built in advantage of the South. Snow removal is very costly. The South really doesn't have that problem.
The ways of the old-rural-racist-backwards South that you grew up reading about is dead my friend. Today, the South is now playing catch-up to the North. Now that the economic restraints that once gripped the South are gone; the South is on the rise again. You are witnessing it. It won't stop until the South and the North are "even".
Think about it. The area you are in was ONLY superior to the South due to immoral and Godless acts that took place in the South. You can not expect the South to remain behind the North now that the evil acts have been removed. Little do you realize, this was actually the true goal of reconstruction. The North wanted to rebuild the South into an economic powerhouse with no trace of the old slave ways. If the South remained poor (it would have without slavery and without economic urban development), the reunited Nation would not have as much tax dollars coming from the South. This effort (started by the North) to grow the South economically has worked quite well. I hope this makes sense.
What is funnny to me are the Northerners that seem upset the reconstruction of the South worked so well. It was originally the North's idea. The South rebelled against it and failed. I am glad the South failed. Charlotte would not be the city it is today if the South's rebellion against reconstruction was a success.
I really don't understand how y'all can use "culture" as an excuse for living there, because the north is far more "cultured" than the south, and most all of the little bit of culture the south has is based on either slavery, racism, or supression/discrimination/intolerance against minorities. But still, the south wins, and I don't see why.
An excuse? Why this condecending assumption that someone needs to justify it to you? Or anybody else with such an elitist mindset?
And the slavery, racism, discrimination thing? Oh brother...THAT one again, huh? Chew on these a bit, will you?
The sheer hypocricy of some northerners -- or perhaps it is just smug, blissful, ignorance -- never ceases to amaze me when it comes to this subject....
The Ku Klux Klan was especially strong in Ohio during the 1910s and 1920s. In Summit County, the Klan claimed to have fifty thousand members, making it the largest local chapter in the United States. Many of the county's officials were members, including the sheriff, the Akron mayor, several judges and county commissioners, and most members of Akron's school board. The Klan was also very popular in Licking County, where the group held its state konklave (convention) in 1923 and 1925. More than seventy thousand people attended each event. The konklaves were held at Buckeye Lake, a popular tourist attraction in the early twentieth century.
Northerners still take pride in their participation in the Underground Railroad. Few mention its counterpart, the kidnapping of free blacks from the North into slavery. This practice was rampant, especially in the mid-Atlantic states, where gangs of kidnappers made being free uncertain and insecure. ``Complicity'' documents this as another form of slave trade, sanctioned by racism, fugitive slave laws and onerous Supreme Court decisions. It also documents the Northern hatred that greeted abolitionists such as William Lloyd Garrison and Prudence Crandall. Particularly moving are the stories of Elijah Lovejoy, assassinated while defending his printing press from a mob in Alton, Ill., and the brief but powerful recounting of the life and death of John Brown.
Not withstanding that the whole concept of "hate-crimes" is nothing more than a feel-good PC skewed concept, it still appears that the worst are not in the South. Ohio beats out Texas. And some of the lowest are in those *gasp* horrid Deep South states like Mississippi and Alabama.
An excuse? Why this condecending assumption that someone needs to justify it to you? Or anybody else with such an elitist mindset?
I can't help but get annoyed at the undertones of superiority regarding "culture" when what we could reasonably consider "culture" in America is directly descended from the southern plantations and the everyday lives or slaves and poor whites. Without slavery, there would be no blues, jazz, country, rock and roll or hip-hop. Our identity as a nation and our cultural output are inextricably tied to the South.
I can't help but get annoyed at the undertones of superiority regarding "culture" when what we could reasonably consider "culture" in America is directly descended from the southern plantations and the everyday lives or slaves and poor whites. Without slavery, there would be no blues, jazz, country, rock and roll or hip-hop. Our identity as a nation and our cultural output are inextricably tied to the South.
...but it's certainly not an exclusive thing, however. When I think of the US as a whole, I don't think of it as being based upon a southern foundation. If I think of what constitutes America, or the average American, I might think of a combination of New York, Georgia, Illinois/Ohio, Texas and California all assimilated into one composite entity( just to use one set of examples).
I don't know if you meant to say the South provided the "cultural underpinning" of the United States, but if you did, I'd disagree. It's just one of the pieces of the greater whole.
...but it's certainly not an exclusive thing, however. When I think of the US as a whole, I don't think of it as being based upon a southern foundation. If I think of what constitutes America, or the average American, I might think of a combination of New York, Georgia, Illinois/Ohio, Texas and California all assimilated into one composite entity( just to use one set of examples).
I don't know if you meant to say the South provided the "cultural underpinning" of the United States, but if you did, I'd disagree. It's just one of the pieces of the greater whole.
No, I meant "our identity as a nation and our cultural output are inextricably tied to the South." My opinion is inline with your own. It's a piece of the whole, and certainly the whole couldn't exist in its present form without it, but it's my opinion that the same is true of most regions in the US.
I have to admit I've never lived in a small town or rural area in the south/sunbelt. But I find the larger cities such as Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, and others to be full of culture. And wonderful museums. And great restaurants. And many things unique. And none of this is based on slavery or racism. WTH?
I loved my time living in Houston. It has the country's 2nd largest theatre district after NYC, top-notch museums that attract many exhibits from overseas, a top ten ranked restaurant scene, two Chinatowns, and the largest medical district in the world. And Rice University is no podunk college. I wish I could afford to live in one of the more desirable inner city neighborhoods, but I'll make due for now in one of the nicest suburbs I've ever seen -- Sugar Land even houses many corporations and companies, so many people who live here only have a 5-10 minute commute to work.
I agree totally with you. I think that a few of these Northerners have a different definition of culture than the rest of the world.
Other extreme high level universities in the South:
Vanderbilt, GA Tech, UNC Chapel Hill, Duke, Emory, UF Gainesville, UGA, UT Austin, TA&M College Station, Clemson
Why do you all bash it.
Why do you all make a subtle thread every day or week to post something negative about it.
What type of agenda do you have by posting this?
People like different things. Some people don't find the appeal of rust belt cities. They don't care that the older cities have four seasons or lots of museums and history. They care about living, not playing. If they think they can make a better living in the sunbelt, what does it matter to you? People in the sunbelt do not make threads daily or weekly to discuss on how bad or how fake the rustbelt is.
I think it's just time to stop the insecurity. This is still the same country.
All above is easy to answer. Dayton just lost their one and only Fortune 500 company, NCR. They are moving to Georgia and taking over 2,000 jobs with them. Since the announcement much of the Dayton media has been reporting how Dayton is struggling to compete with the Sunbelt, and how Sunbelt cities have been draining the area of its citizens....
Article: NCR to move headquarters to Georgia (http://www.daytondailynews.com/business/ncr-to-move-headquarters-to-georgia-143611.html - broken link)
Great posts, y'all. This is shaping up to be a great discussion.
Anyways, UrbanCharlotte- Trust me, I know pleanty about the west side. I work there. Its struggle is a lot of the reason why I became an urban activist.
Yes, I am very aware about the strong Klan presence we had up here. I am also aware of the fact that many northerners were not accepting of the African-American migration to the northern cities and factories, and also the "white flight" from the cities that ensued, thus being the earliest version of "sprawl".
Also, we have other Fotune 500 companies within our metro area, but yes, NCR was the only one we had within our city borders. It was also one of our area's weakest companies, spinning off half of its Dayton workforce into another company together (and supposedly it was its "profitable division", according to our local papers). It is also basically lost its ATM manufacturing market to nore viable competitors, and is also losing its cash register market to stronger companies such as IBM, as well. Considering the fact they reduced their workforce by 93% in our city over the past 30 years BEFORE they left also says a lot about the corporations' receding importance. However, it is still a painful blow, mainly figuratively, since the company did so much to build our city into what it is today.
About the university comment.....I'd say we'll call it even. 'Cause we got Michigan, Wisconsin-Madison, UIUC, OSU, Purdue, IU, Northwestern, University of Chicago, Oberlin, Kenyon, Miami, Case Western, Wash U in St. Louis, UM-Twin Cities, Carleton, Macalaster, Grinell..... do you want me to keep going?
Anyways, a lot of the reason why I launched this post was not because of you southerners out there, it was because of my family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. that live up here in the rust belt. We really are tired of getting kicked in the head, and yes, Bill Nuti's attitude (the CEO of NCR who refused to move to Dayton from NY, citing "family illness", and later moved on to spinning off half NCR's Dayton workforce, along with almost all of its board members and pro-Dayton workers, off to another company. He later moved the "Headquarters" to NYC, where he was from, and soon after that moved the rest of the operation to Georgia after a backroom deal with their legislators that Ohio was unable to compete with. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time this has happened) about Dayton, along with others like him who have done this to countless other rust-belt cities, is uncomprehendable for me. Are we really that bad? And if so, what makes the south so much better? Is it the conservative atmosphere that executives seem to live by and love? Or is it the weather? Maybe the golf courses or the cheap land? Anyways, I am on a mission to find out, and you guys have been helping tremendously, because you're obviously winning this economic battle with tremendous flair, and have overcome many flaws I mentioned earlier that make your region in general a turn-off. It is just hard to see why after being so settled in to my ways.
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There are southern ties..
