What Stereotypes Do You Hear About Cleveland? (Parma, Polk: transplants, move)

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by NotAPinhead

Because without a point of comparison, they won't understand just how microscopic Cleveland is in so many ways.

Thanks andrew61 for offering your opinion from the perspective of someone who has lived in another city besides Cleveland and can offer insights to the many people who come to this forum who are considering a move to Cleveland and want to hear both the good and bad.

So population statistics don't paint that picture already?
If anyone is wondering, here are populations of Cleveland Chicago city proper according to census data:
Cleveland - 396,815
Chicago - 2,695,598

My problem with andy is that there is already a forum for what he wants to discuss: //www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/. Feel free to start a thread there, if you are so inclined.

Individual city forums are about individual cities, unless someone specifically asks "hey I'm from Chicago, how is Cleveland similar/different? Thanks!" Then I could see such a discussion being valid. Otherwise, it's pretty irrelevant. Especially when you look back and read what the OP actually wrote or asked.

[averysgore]

Originally Posted by RichRollin

I love Cleveland, I truly do. But sorry dude, to say they have one of the top 3 skylines in the world is a stretch...and that's a nice way of putting it. It could be viewed as an insult to ones intelligence.

I'm a fan of Cleveland's skyline. I prefer it to Boston's and Pittsburgh's which seem to get a lot more love. It's taller than either, and the Terminal has all the cool ornate detail (like the 4 mini towers) that you don't see on other skyscrapers outside of New York, since it's one of the country's oldest.

Originally Posted by Peregrine

PlayhouseSquare District
Cleveland's major theater district is PlayhouseSquare, the second largest performing arts center in the country, which draws well over one million visitors annually. The five beautifully restored theatres are home to the opera, ballet, concerts, an impressive Broadway Series and the Great Lakes Theatre Festival.

Second largest performing arts center. Ok. We'll take it.

And our theater scene JUST KEEPS GROWING. It's insane.
Theater Ninjas

Looking at the two websites below, it's clear that Boston has more theater/performing arts offerings than Playhouse Square.

PlayhouseSquare :: Theaters (it's easiest to browse by theater, it seems)

Boston Concerts | Boston Tickets | Boston Attractions | ArtsBoston.org

Playhouse Square's Broadway touring series isn't bad - in fact, you guys have the musical Fela which Boston doesn't this year, and that's one I'd really like to see (and with a maximum price of $70 - whoa! Ours would be over twice that). But I'm not seeing any opera at all, and I'm only seeing two dance events (Nutcracker and Mark Morris), and Boston has far more of both of those (I should know, my girlfriend's a dance fanatic).

Cleveland doesn't have a poor theater scene, but looking through the listings, I can't imagine that most major cities wouldn't have something comparable to what I'm seeing here. Though I did have a friend who moved from Cleveland to Austin who complained that Austin's fine arts offerings were way worse than Cleveland's. Of course the tradeoff is that Austin has one of the nation's best rock music scenes, but she was less into that.

Originally Posted by Rumble

While I agree that my home metro area is on the rebound, to be quite frank, a lot of the things people are propping up here aren't even close to being on most people's radar outside of Ohio. Cleveland has got a lot of marketing to do to update its image.

I think the largest untapped resource that Cleveland has is that river front, extending out into the lake. If it were properly developed, just think of the possibilities. I'm not even positive what is there right now? Some half abandoned airport and several parking lots?

Yes, and YES.

Originally Posted by Rumble

I believe that one of the reasons Clevelanders get so down on their city is because they confuse scope and scale. Cleveland needs to look towards mid-sized metros (Milwaukee, Austin, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Portland, Columbus, Raleigh, Indianapolis) as its competition. Metros such as NY, Toronto, Chicago, DC, Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle, San Fran, etc., will attract the "right people" that you are referring to 100x more often than Cleveland ever will.

I don't agree. We're competing for the exact same people that are flocking to these cities, so I think sizing ourselves up against these cities and seeing where we fall short (and I'm not just talking population) is exactly what we should be doing. Most of those mid-sized metros (Portland excepted) are honestly not cities I'd spend any time trying to emulate. And Cleveland WAS a top-tier city, and Seattle hasn't always been, nor has Atlanta (I'm not convinced it is now), so I don't see why striving for the top could be a bad idea.

Too bad we still can't say, "we're the only city in the northern half of the country with a Sea World."

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I still don't understand why people who are on the Cleveland forum because they are interested in Cleveland care at all about Chicago. Have you figured that one out yet, andy?

I honestly wish I knew. I might actually shut up about Chicago if other people didn't keep bringing it up.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by averysgore

I don't agree. We're competing for the exact same people that are flocking to these cities, so I think sizing ourselves up against these cities and seeing where we fall short (and I'm not just talking population) is exactly what we should be doing.

Exactly. That's precisely why I see comparisons between cities as inevitable. It's pretty hard to garner any perspective without them. No city exists in a vacuum.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by NotAPinhead

Because without a point of comparison, they won't understand just how microscopic Cleveland is in so many ways.

Thanks andrew61 for offering your opinion from the perspective of someone who has lived in another city besides Cleveland and can offer insights to the many people who come to this forum who are considering a move to Cleveland and want to hear both the good and bad.

And that's all I'm trying to do here. Thank you for your support!

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

My problem with andy is that there is already a forum for what he wants to discuss: //www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/. Feel free to start a thread there, if you are so inclined.

Good point, but the problem is that people on this forum who really need to hear the comparisons aren't necessarily also following along on City Vs. City. And, although I try not to because I know the mods frown on it, I find it hard to discuss a city in any meaningful sense without making any comparisons due to the fact that no city exists in a vacuum or "bubble". Every city is defined by its place in the wider world and how it stacks up, and sometimes there is just no way around that.

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Individual city forums are about individual cities, unless someone specifically asks "hey I'm from Chicago, how is Cleveland similar/different? Thanks!" Then I could see such a discussion being valid. Otherwise, it's pretty irrelevant. Especially when you look back and read what the OP actually wrote or asked.

A few years ago there was what became a rather lengthy thread here started by a guy who was considering both Cleveland and Chicago and wanted to weigh the pros and cons of each. An oldie but a goodie:

//www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...d-chicago.html

[Yac]

Enough with Chicago. It's off topic here, if you want to compare these 2 cities go to the city vs city forum. This is the Cleveland forum.
Yac.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by andrew61

Peregrine, have you figured out yet why boasting about the size of a city's theater district tells people absolutely nothing about a city's overall theater scene and how it compares to that of other cities?

Um... I only even brought that up, and in a joking manner by the way, to counter your point that Chicago is #2. I honestly don't give a f who is #2, #3, #4. Suffice it to say Cleveland has an amazing and varied and exciting and forward moving and ONE OF the best theater SCENES in the US of A, Andrew. Period. Fact.
And we have plenty of "Off Playhouse Square" theater going on here, too. Anytime you hear about our "Theater District" being the 2nd largest, that doesn't even take into consideration that there are still others theaters not even in that area.

Originally Posted by notapinhead

Because without a point of comparison, they won't understand just how microscopic Cleveland is in so many ways.

Thanks andrew61 for offering your opinion from the perspective of someone who has lived in another city besides Cleveland and can offer insights to the many people who come to this forum who are considering a move to Cleveland and want to hear both the good and bad.

3 Posts.... friend of yours Andy?
Andrew you seem to have a vendetta against the CLE.
You came into this thread with some of the wierdest "stereotypes" I've ever heard. "Clevelanders like to settle for less...". I mean really? That is SO ridiculous. Just making s up, bro. ANd there were some other great examples.

Cleveland is not perfect. Not ONE of us will say it is. But it is better then most give it credit. Period.

(--Just saw your post Yac. This will be my last comment in this thread--)
End of MY discussion...

[Natural510]

Is it acceptable to make a positive comparison? Cleveland reminds me a lot of my hometown, Oakland; bad rep due to the past, mostly derided by outsiders, undergoing a renaissance, underrated topography (including an under-tapped waterfront), high crime in half of the city, excellent arts community, three major sports (for now), working-class image, relatively affordable as a result.

[citymama]

Originally Posted by Natural510

Is it acceptable to make a positive comparison? Cleveland reminds me a lot of my hometown, Oakland; bad rep due to the past, mostly derided by outsiders, undergoing a renaissance, underrated topography (including an under-tapped waterfront), high crime in half of the city, excellent arts community, three major sports (for now), working-class image, relatively affordable as a result.

Well said! Oakland is my hometown as well!! It was a relatively easy transition for me and my family when we moved to Cleveland. It all felt VERY familiar. We tend to root for the underdog and my family and I have Cleveland and Oakland pride running through our veins!