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My first born is a Junior in HS this year. To date she has been a good student, more A's than B's, no C's. She has the potential to do better, her first 2 years of HS she got grades without trying terribly hard, being more interested in friends and such.
This summer she's matured quite a bit and is stepping up her studies. She volunteers with kids as a church counselor and at the local hospital. She's studying hard for PSAT and I expect solid grades this year. She should have some good choices for schools by tying her acceptable academics to a focused essay that shows a commitment to serving kids and the elderly.
She is not sure of what she wants to do, except that she's strongly leading toward Soc/Psych type programs. Her best guess now is that she wants to be a child psychologist. Although she is not strong in that conviction and I suspect as with most, she will change directions once at school.
My first question is one of practicality. I believe a liberal arts degree is a great baseline that can dovetail nicely into several grad programs (law, MBA, PHD progams, etc.) I also am aware that there are many Liberal Arts BA grads waiting tables. I'd like to guide my daughter toward a program that lends itself well to scale toward an advanced degree, at the same time having marketable value if she does not continue on to grad school.
Secondly, as with most proud parents, I'd like her to get the best education possible. We're in NY which has many great choices however she is the adventurous type and would prefer to go out of state. I'd like her to reach for Cornell or Columbia with the SUNY schools as safety schools. So far she has shown interest in UNC, UCLA, Texas and Penn State. I would support her going to any of the above. She understands the OOS tuition disadvantages and the difficulty getting in to these schools which is a motivator for her. Which is good.
Any advice on schools or programs within a particular school that I should guide her toward would be appreciated. Her interests and volunteer work line up nicely with a liberal arts program of study. I'm hopeful that admissions offices will look favorably on her activities being "socially concious". It's early to select a college and course of study, but I think keeping that carrot in front of her will motivate to achieve her potential.
My first born is a Junior in HS this year. To date she has been a good student, more A's than B's, no C's. She has the potential to do better, her first 2 years of HS she got grades without trying terribly hard, being more interested in friends and such.
This summer she's matured quite a bit and is stepping up her studies. She volunteers with kids as a church counselor and at the local hospital. She's studying hard for PSAT and I expect solid grades this year. She should have some good choices for schools by tying her acceptable academics to a focused essay that shows a commitment to serving kids and the elderly.
She is not sure of what she wants to do, except that she's strongly leading toward Soc/Psych type programs. Her best guess now is that she wants to be a child psychologist. Although she is not strong in that conviction and I suspect as with most, she will change directions once at school.
My first question is one of practicality. I believe a liberal arts degree is a great baseline that can dovetail nicely into several grad programs (law, MBA, PHD progams, etc.) I also am aware that there are many Liberal Arts BA grads waiting tables. I'd like to guide my daughter toward a program that lends itself well to scale toward an advanced degree, at the same time having marketable value if she does not continue on to grad school.
Secondly, as with most proud parents, I'd like her to get the best education possible. We're in NY which has many great choices however she is the adventurous type and would prefer to go out of state. I'd like her to reach for Cornell or Columbia with the SUNY schools as safety schools. So far she has shown interest in UNC, UCLA, Texas and Penn State. I would support her going to any of the above. She understands the OOS tuition disadvantages and the difficulty getting in to these schools which is a motivator for her. Which is good.
Any advice on schools or programs within a particular school that I should guide her toward would be appreciated. Her interests and volunteer work line up nicely with a liberal arts program of study. I'm hopeful that admissions offices will look favorably on her activities being "socially concious". It's early to select a college and course of study, but I think keeping that carrot in front of her will motivate to achieve her potential.
Burb, I graduated from Texas (engineering) and my wife studied Psychology there. It is an excellent school, with a beautiful campus, and a rigorous academic program. As I understand it, their psych program is geared more towards research than other programs in the state (which may be more counseling oriented).
A psychology B.A. can turn into many things including: PHD Psych, Masters of Psych, Masters in Counseling, and Masters in Clinical Social Work. You can get a job with any of these majors-- although the Masters in Counselling and Masters in Clinical Social Work would probably be the easiest to get a job with... and you could definitely do child psychology with either of these degrees. (but the masters of counseling would probably be better for the "play therapy" field)
Be aware, with a BA in psychology you will have to go on to get your masters to get a job in the field.
I always recommend figuring out an occupation to get into in at least your first year of college. This will make it easier to tailor your degree towards that field. I also recommend checking out starting salaries and job placement statistics (this is how you avoid waiting tables after you graduate).
Dentistry! No doubt about it, dentistry! I have nothing against the liberal art degrees but you're right, some of them just don't hold alot of value and these days you had better know what the hell you're going to school for. No more of these students going to expensive schools and being undeclared, are you kidding me, undeclared? Granted your first year of college doesn't really matter because no matter what your major is you'll be taking the gen ed's. I would stick with the sciences; biology, chemistry, physics. Medical or Dental School, no doubt it, best decision I ever made I can tell you that.
Just to clarify, going to a liberal arts college does not mean you get a degree in Liberal Arts, it just means that they support a more well rounded undergrad program vs going to an IT type school, for example. She could graduated from a liberal arts school with a degree in Math, psychology, accounting, etc.
I think your strategy of having reach and safety schools is right on target. One thing you may not be aware of is that the Ivy's and many schools along those lines have "priced" their schools based on your income vs having a set tuition. At Harvard, for example, if your adjusted gross income is $180,000 or less you pay 10% of your AGI for your tuition/fees and any "loans" are converted to grants so kids graduate with no student loans. What this means is if your AGI is $180K, you pay $18K to go to Harvard--making the Ivys the most affordable schools for most everyone.
Go visit a couple schools, one large, one small--doesn't really matter which ones. Just get a feel for the campus and let her see what size school she would like. That helps narrow down the search tremendously.
College fairs are in full swing, our's is tomorrow, go visit and get some literature. She will get a TON of mailings from various schools once she takes the PSAT. Make sure she checks to box to receive those mailings/emails. That is a good way to start researching.
Once she does her research on paper/online, plan to visit some schools that she is interested in attending. That usually helps kids narrow it down to a few schools.
We did some college visits this past summer-mainly because of schedules-with our twins that are also juniors. They each have 3 schools they are fine attending. We are looking for one more "cheep" school since the rest are private schools.
Also, remember, do NOT shop on cost alone. Until you get your financial aid packages you have no idea how much any schools cost. When I was in school, it was many thousands less to attend a private school than any state school because of the grants/scholarships, etc. I received.
I like this site: College Admissions - SAT - University & College Search Tool to do base "online" research. The kids have used this to narrow down what schools they like, etc. You can go in there and do a fairly detailed college search based on location, school size, admissions standards, majors available, etc. My "favorite" tab to look at is the admissions tab. It pretty much tells you right there what kind of school you are looking at. If I see a school that has average ACT scores of 25, for example, we know that is not the school we want. The kids want a more selective school.
Hey, I am a junior in NY as well, and for a moment I could have sworn my mother was writing this, until you got to the part about church! lol. Anyway, you said she wants to go into psychology or child psychology, so make sure that you keep her interests at heart. She can major in psychology, but if she does so she really can't put off getting a masters degree because psychology isn't exactly a major one can do a lot with.
As someone else mentioned, a liberal arts college is not specific to liberal degrees, in fact many liberal colleges simply mean humanities, so degrees such as teaching, english, history etc are typically popular in these schools.
"Liberal Arts College A type of third level institution common in North America, usually focusing on teaching rather than research, emphasising the virtues of a broad education rooted in the humanities, and small in comparison with other universities. Liberal Arts Colleges tend to have lower running costs than research-intensive universities."
SUNY schools shouldn't only be considered as safeties, because some actually are very selective. You should look into SUNY Geneseo, and SUNY Binghamton, SUNY Fredonia, as well as CUNY City College, and CUNY Hunter. Some other small colleges are The College of Saint Rose, Eugene Lang College, Elmira University; here is a wiki link to the liberal arts colleges in NY
First, you have my deepest empathy. I went through this process with two daughters in the late 90s/early 2000s and am enormously grateful it is over and worked out exceptionally well. Undergrad and grad school worked out but I think luck had a lot to do with it.
It made combat in Viet Nam look easier (kidding, but not by much. There it was just me and my fellow Marines, with daughter munchkins, it was a whole new ball game).
My comments will be a bit "different" as I've an atypical take on the subject. How to guide a munchkin educationally into the adult world is more than a tad challenging, to say the least. Absent from your post is any info on your financial capabilities.
Personal issue indeed, but I'll elaborate on why its so important shortly. If you are inclined to be a member of the parent group that embraces indebtedness (yours or hers) to put little Sally through XYZ private or $$$$ out of state public, but non-absolutely first rank school (as in H/P/Y/MIT/Stanford, Penn etc.) - good luck. If she qualifies for the absolute top tier of US schools you have no use for my observations.
Cost/benefit analysis is a useful and oft overlooked component of what you are about to engage in. That is also why many of the recent generation of graduates are getting inclined to riot in the streets about college loan debt and no employment prospects.
Advice on programs of study - ZIP/NONE/NADA. She, if typical, will change her mind (only once, if you're lucky). What the kid thinks they want to study/do can change appreciably once they are in college. It is VERY HARD to prescribe this unless you have a super focused munchkin who really knows what they want to do and is abnormally mature.
Your odds on that are relatively small. Without proper planning, their major change can have significant time/costs impacts, sometimes quite hugely. Be advised and/or be prepared. Just FYI.
Its frankly uncommon for them to stay the initial course and even if defined, can be a bear if they want to study dolphins or be the next savior of the poor or whatnot - employment (presuming that you the parent don't plan on supporting them post-grad), can be a tad difficult in some areas that may make your child's heart sing but situate them for being a an educated waitress in today's environment.
A huge, not fun, but realistic element of growing up is to recognize that one is responsible for themselves and the consequences of their choices. Absent rich parents, one's choices in education WILL impact an individual's ability to be a FSIEU (my term), to wit - a Free Standing Independent Economic Unit.
I advised both my daughters that FSIEU was their primary goal or may the gods help them, because I would not. They were clearly aware of the requirements and behaved accordingly. School choice, major choice/changes, work during school, summers, accelerate - all were on the table. Their choice.
My point in this post is that you really need to engage your daughter in the real world impacts of what she is about to engage in. Please ignore this entire post if you are rich, otherwise, it might be useful, maybe. Good luck.
Last edited by Pilgrim21784; 10-03-2011 at 07:24 PM..
All I want to add is to sort of reaffirm what has already been suggested - put SUNY first, not as a safety. None of the schools you listed other than the Ivy leagues are any better than Geneseo and similar schools. Waste of money to spend a fortune on Penn State if she can go to one of the better Sunys.
'Burb, let me first congratulate you because you are starting the information gathering process early!
I am formerly from NY state, also. Your daughter sounds very similar to my daughter who is in 10th grade. More As than Bs no Cs, but a healthy interest in her social life, with a desire to do better, go to school out of state, and attend a "name school"
Your daughter seems to lean more to the social sciences, where as mine, the natural sciences and math.
You don't say what type of classes she is taking. Are these grades in main stream college prep classes? Or are they in honor classes? Is she taking or planning to take any AP classes in area in which she does well? She should do that.
The volunteer work is good because it is related to the fields that interest her. Not fluff. I would suggest that she look for clubs with in her school to join and optimally, obtain a leadership role.
Now I am going to say the same thing to you that I did to my daughter - unless her SATs are through the roof, or there is something else that I don't know about,(For example, you or your husband have graduated from those schools) the odds of her getting into an Ivy League School - especially the two that you mention, are slim.
If she begins to get mostly As and the occasional B, occasional, mind you, and adds more meaningful extracurricular, and does very well on her boards, it would be possible. However no guarantee.
I also agree with the poster you said that "SUNY schools should not only be thought of as safety schools" In fact, let me take that one step further, the better SUNY schools share overlap applications with many fine private Universities. They are not safety schools. The two that I know best are Stony Brook University and Binghampton University (these are generally the best and most competitive). Your daughter's current school performance would put her smack dab in the middle - applicants at both schools. I would say the same about the other Flag Ship SUNY schools and I would add Geneseo, in terms of admission.
Also, with the current economy, I do not think these universities will be getting any easier.
I do not know too much about the other state schools you mention. There are different campuses as well, but I do know this much UNC @ Chapel Hill is quite competitive, and more so for out of state students. The same would be true of Penn State @ University Park, University of Texas @ Austin and UCLA @ Berkley.
You asked about a liberal arts education and jobs after college with a degree in the Social Sciences and I have two answers - First, I am a strong supporter of Liberal Arts Education. College is not a very expensive and fancy trade school, and there is no guarantee that a degree in psychology, will get you a job. With a LA degree in a "pure" i.e not applied subject such as sociology or sociology, she can sit for a civil service job in social services - a case worker, for example. On the good side, those jobs have great benefits, and offer tuition reimbursement. On the other hand, they do not pay well.
With a non-career oriented undergraduate degree, most likely graduate school is in her future, if she wants to work in the "Helping Professions" MA is Counseling, Guidance Counseling, or Mental Health Counseling for example.
The other idea would be to obtain a BSW (Bachelor of Science in Social Work) This could lead to an entry level job, in a hospital, social service agency, or nursing home. Nursing homes hire many BSWs and your daughter likes working with the elderly.
She still might want to return to college to obtain her MSW (Master of Science in Social Work)
There is really nothing wrong with your daughter's average as it is,and there are many well regarded schools that would accept her with those good grades.
You also mentioned that she volunteers at your church. Does your denomination have any colleges? Frequently, there are scholarships for students of the same denomination, and your Pastor would probably be more than happy to supply her with a hearty endorsement because your daughter is so involved in your church in a meaningful way.
If you let me know the type of classes she is taking, and other things that she wants in a college, i might be able to give you some suggestions.
Honestly, she is not interested in an unusual subject, and she seems quite flexible in her needs.
...my son is looking for glass blowing and dimensional Art, in a college that is close to our home and has a very liberal atmosphere, a large Vegan menu, preferably where he can help design his own major and there are no Fraternities, hipsters or preppies....try that.
All I want to add is to sort of reaffirm what has already been suggested - put SUNY first, not as a safety. None of the schools you listed other than the Ivy leagues are any better than Geneseo and similar schools. Waste of money to spend a fortune on Penn State if she can go to one of the better Sunys.
I am a native Pennsylvanian, and I agree that OOS tuition at Penn State would not be worth it. Better to spend that money on a small liberal arts college. There are lots of those in NY, PA throughout the midwest, and the west coast; not so much in the mountain west. I am unfamiliar with the southern states colleges.
We told our kids we would not pay OOS tuition at one of the big state Us unless a school had some very unique program; they could go to the University of Colorado if that was what they wanted.
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